If you were me, which of these schools would you put as your first choice?

[GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal]

DD is in Y6, so we're about to start applying for her secondary school place. We have a reasonably good chance of getting either of the following schools:

School A: mixed comprehensive. Rated Good by Ofsted in 2018. Considered, both locally and by the CEO of an organisation called "inclusion expert" to give the most outstanding pastoral care and support to its students. The entire school ethos seems to be focused on getting the best from each individual child, in a supportive and creative way.

However, Whilst situated in what would be considered an affluent area it is on the edge of a super output area with high levels of deprivation and poverty, including one ward which is in the top 25% for low income and crime, so the starting point for a lot of these kids makes this a challenging aim. Also, their exam results really aren't great - below average not just for the area, but for England. The impression I got when I attended the open evening last year was that this is at least in part because the school's focus is on well-being over academic achievement. I really loved it at the time, it just had a warm and welcoming atmosphere, and the Head seemed like an incredible women. Inspired and driven.

School B: Outstanding single sex girls comprehensive. 56% of pupils achieved grades 9-7 in last year's GCSEs. Pastorally, it's considered good. Very popular with local parents, and I've heard nothing bad about it. I couldn't attend their open evening last year as it got cancelled by Health England so haven't had the chance to form my own opinion yet.

We're going to attend open evenings and working day visits at both, which will hopefully help us decide, because at the moment I keep going back and forth between "my main priority for DD is her health and well-being, and school A will prioritise that", and "but the whole reason for going to school is to get decent exam results, and school B will give her the best chance of that."

Other schools in the area we either have no chance of getting or have similar exam results to school A but without the outstanding pastoral care.

As for DD herself, she's autistic and extremely bright and academic. No learning difficulties but does very much struggle socially and with anxiety, hence pastoral care and a supportive environment being such a priority. She's a loner, but does tend to prefer boys to girls, and isn't keen on a single sex school. A lot of other girls from her primary school will go to school B; hardly any, if any at all will go to school A (there's a lot of snobbery about it, some parents recoiled in horror when I mentioned I was considering it!) DD regards not knowing anyone as a positive - I get the impression she's rather hoping to reinvent herself at secondary.

Finally, I have mixed feelings about single sex education. I know a lot of research says it's better for girls, but I went to an all girls school and had a truly awful time, my life was made miserable by other girls. DD is not me, though, so I'm trying not to let that cloud my viewpoint! She has a younger brother, so it would certainly be easier to have them both at the same school.

Well done if you got through that essay! I'd really love to hear from other parents who've made a similar choice, or from teachers with some expertise to share. Thanks!

I'd go for B although obviously I'd follow what your daughter prefers after visiting! But my initial reaction to your post is B. Remember the Head will not be in every lesson and they are very good at turning on the charm on open evenings. My gut feeling (maybe unfair) is that reading between the lines, A has to focus on pastoral stuff and inclusion because the cohort is challenging, and it's impossible to focus on academics when the basics aren't being met. I'm a secondary teacher so am somewhat experienced in school spiels although I could be totally off the mark here! Definitely go and look at both and see how your daughter responds. I will also say that I went to a co-ed and my best friend was a boy - I had a lovely school experience and came out with very good GCSEs so I'm not anti co ed at all.

For an autistic girl she is more likely to meet like minded girls at the more academic school.

However, you need to meet the senco at each school and discuss what support they will give your autistic child that’s the most important thing. Whether it’s social skills courses, additional help in English which many autistic kids struggle with even when academic as inference is hard.

If your autistic child is able and you send them to a less academic school then often they will get overlooked as they are keeping pace academically even though they may be struggling in other areas.

I went for a middle ground good but not excellent academically but amazing sen support. Good pastoral support is NOT the same as good sen support from my experience.

Thank you both, some excellent points to consider. DD at the moment is much keener on school A (my fault, I came back from last year's open evening singing its praises), but I'm asking her to keep an open mind and at least consider school B.

Both schools have significant advantages and sound great in different ways. Therefore I think you should let your Dd decide, that will feel empowering for her and you don't have to decide!

When you exam results aren't good, is that from a pure % rate or also is progress not good, ie Progress 8?

I'd go with A if Progress 8 is OK even if overall results low, maybe B otherwise.

Hi, it all feels so stressful doesn't it?! My background is I have DD in a single sex school yr7, and DS in yr 6 choosing schools as we speak, he is also autistic and very bright. Based on what you've written, school B seems logical purely based on pastoral, and most importantly, what your daughter wants. If she is happier, she will do well. If the school is a bit under par results wise, that may just be the demographic, not the teachers. I went to a really rough comprehensive, hated it, but came out with straight As so cant really fault the teaching, also was supported from home and encouraged to work. There is always an option if you can afford it later on of some tutoring or extracurricular stuff to support learning if you want to academically boost.

My daughter is loving her single sex school, it's a highly selective grammar and she is very academic, but most importantly she was desperate for a single sex environment as has found boys in her learning environment highly irritating.

My son sits 11+ today, there was a choice of 2 schools from that assuming he gets the marks, 1 is considered 'better' than the other, but it won't even go on our form because when he looked round, he didn't like it. We're also looking at various other schools and his biggest criteria is size, he wants the smallest school possible, and I know he has to feel comfortable.

Some of the schools we've looked at have appalling overall exam results, but a few local news searches show individuals from them with fabulous results, showing it is possible.
I'd be guided by your daughter and the 'feel' of the schools on the open days. Also, try and request to speak to sencos on open days, you'll get a much better idea of how your DD would be supported.

Sorry for a long rambly answer, hope it helps in some way!

I would argue that the whole point of school is not just to get exam results. It’s to gain confidence, make friends, find your interests. If she is miserable in school B she’s not likely to do well. If school A isn’t giving her enough challenge perhaps she could have a tutor.

My daughter is autistic but only 5. My priority will always be where will she be happiest and most understood and most likely to meet other autistic kids.

I admit to not really understanding the Progress 8 score, but school A's is rated "well below average" at -0.4. 😕 Admittedly that's from 2019, which is the most year they have data for due to Covid.

School B's is "well above average" - 0.81.

Sorry, that was in response to @TeenDivided

When my DD was 5 I'd probably have said the same thing, it all feels a bit different when you actually have to make the decision and feels like their entire future depends on you making the right one!

I'd go for school B. There's no reason to suppose she'll be miserable there, is there?!

Roughly speaking the Progress 8 score is how well the school does compared with those with similar cohorts on their GCSEs.
So -0.4 means that on average a child who should have averaged say 6s averages 5.6 instead, so instead of 6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6 They have~ 6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5.
Whereas your +0.8 will have more like 7,7,7,7,7,7,6,6
It is a bit more complicated than that due to double counting maths and criteria for 'buckets'.

If you look you can find Progress 8 for prior higher, average and lower attainers. Some schools do well by one type of child, but not the others.

B, the pastoral care is decent and your daughter will get stimulation and an environment that is probably more balanced between academic and social, which will be easier than her.

Plus she will need a career with structure so doing well and having choices at university will be important.

People get too caught up in single sex IMO, what matters is it’s a decent school.

Yes sure! I can imagine. I suppose the academics become more important as time goes on. It’s a decision I’m dreading to be honest. For her primary school we went with the School A equivalent which is working well so far.

Thank you, that was very helpful. Looking at that, school B's P8 result are better for the high achievers than low or middle, but all groups show improvement.

School A's are low across the board, but worst for high achievers.

No, none at all! Other parents speak very highly of the school.

B then, probably. If it goes wrong, transfer to A. Probably going to be easier that way around.

That's exactly what my mum - a retired Education Advisor - said!

I would go with A all day, every day.

My dd1 attended a school like school B (ours was a grammar rather than comp though) She is autistic and it was an unmitigated disaster. The school appeared to prioritise their results over well-being. (She ended up getting GCSEs at college - which was a supportive environment - and got 7-9’s in everything she did after leaving school with nothing).

dd2 also autistic and amazingly bright like her sister goes to a school where pastoral care is beyond amazing - from the amazing headteacher downwards) I am going to be gutted when she leaves (it is primary). The school manages to still achieve well in results tables etc but I think that comes from the children being encouraged and supported always. I am not going to encourage the grammar for her but find a school that matches in pastoral care to her primary as I believe that will still mean she can achieve all she is capable of as she will be happy.

I used to think academics was the be all and end all but from my families experience I would pick a school with amazing pastoral care, a school that gives that good feeling as a child truly can achieve in the environment that is right for them.

Are you comparing like with like? In your OP you mention exam results in school A from 2019 but compare them with those from school B from 2021. CAGs in 2021 were awarded generously (I am a secondary school teacher) so it is not a fair comparison.

I'm in the school A camp as a survivor of an all-girls school, I vowed I would never subject my DDs to that sort of atmosphere. Whilst school A promotes pastoral welfare above exam results, your DD has the potential to be one of their stars, so should be well looked-after. I agree with the poster above commenting that constantly pushing exam grades may well be at the expense of good mental health.

I would be tending towards School A, except for the lower progress 8.

However, this hasn't been reported in the last 2 years, so I would be speaking to the school and specifically asking what they are doing to improve their academic attainment. If they don't give a satisfactory answer, I'd swap to School B :)

Actually - a thought. Progress 8, for the last year's cohort (those who sat GCSEs this summer) generally does get posted (at least provisionally) before secondary applications have to go in. So that's something to look out for. Particularly as a point of comparison with 2019.

School A's are low across the board, but worst for high achievers

I was going to say B anyway but for me this is really important. It suggests to me that the school are spending a lot of time trying to support lower achievers, which is course commendable, but that and the brighter kids are left to get on with it and not reaching their potential.

I work in an area like you describe. I work in school A. A good question to ask is about setting and streaming. At my school they set the classes which means the A classes are lovely (7A, 8A, 9A). Students in these classes are cushioned from distractions and are able to be stretched. A child in my school in these classes have great opportunities.

The issue comes with the limitations that arise because of the lower aspirations overall eg less choice of GCSE subjects.

And that is why I would choose option B, if I was in your position.

I'm wondering if you live near my sister who is trying to make the same decision right now! Her DD really doesn't want to go the girls school though.