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Secondary education

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Original poster

Suspension woes

56 replies

StressyTimes · 17/09/2022 02:20

Any help gladly received - will try not to drop feed but do yea t to be too outing

My sisters teenager has been suspended from school for 3 days (currently serving) after inappropriate language to an older female pupil who made a complaint

My DN apologised at the time of the incident as realised they had said something wrong - not that this makes it right but the complainee fid not seem bothered by action

DN had a good record at the school

My sister feels that the punishment is too harsh for what was said and Is not fair -feels his good record is tarnished and that when he returns he will end up being singled out left right and centre

Anyone have any words of advice I can give her ?

OP posts:
RunningFromInsanity · 17/09/2022 11:38

Anyone have any words of advice I can give her ?

That comments like that don’t just come out of nowhere. She needs to crack down on this before he turns into a creep at best, a sexual predator at worst.
You are both minimising a vile comment.

Fireflygal · 17/09/2022 11:38

The girl must have reacted negatively for him to apologise straight away. I don't buy he suddenly regretted it.

However he doesn't know how she felt and the fact she complained is sufficient. I honestly can't imagine it's the first offence and he has quite a sense of entitlement if he felt able to say this to an older girl. I dread to think how he thinks about or speaks to girls his own age.

You should be grateful that the school is giving your nephew a sharp wake up. He needs to learn from this and his family shouldn't indulge any victim narrative. He deserves 3 days suspension.

He may get the cold shoulder when he goes back to school as not sure many children will be keen to be associated with a sex pest however it will die down after a while. It will be uncomfortable for him and he might feel ashamed but that's the consequence of his actions.

I also think his parents need to check his online activity and block access to porn. Please encourage your sister to take this seriously as he needs to have a change of mindset. His comment came from a place of entitlement and his thoughts around girls.

Rainbowshine · 17/09/2022 11:38

He may well have a good academic record but in my experience it was the bright high achieving arrogant boys that were the worst behaving towards girls as the teachers all said “oh no I can’t imagine him being like that”. Simply because a pupil gets As in all their tests doesn’t mean they are brilliantly behaved, usually they feel immune to punishment because of their grades and the pervasive perception that they can do no wrong that teachers perpetuate.

Original poster
StressyTimes · 17/09/2022 11:43

Can I just reiterate what a pp said. Justifying sexual harassment by saying she seemed okay with it is appalling and worrying. It's a close cousin to the "she smiled at me", "she didn't say no" defence. You cannot behave sexually inappropriately towards a girl or woman and then filter your behaviour through your own entitled and erroneous perception of their unwilling and unwitting role in the event. There is NO justification. And apologising after the fact doesn't matter either.

I am not justifying anything - I was reporting what was relayed - he was upset at the time and immediately apologised at the time as he realised it was wrong - he apologised directly - No that doesn't make it right at all what he said , far from it

  • the comment that she seemed ok was because he did not understand why when she accepted his apology at the time many later there is a complaint - he has sen - no I'm not drip feeding - as far as my sister is concerned whatever issues he has should not stop him getting in trouble for this behaviour as he has to live and cope on the real world
  • I am not agreeing with him or his behaviour and neither is my sister
OP posts:
Endlessdays · 17/09/2022 11:47

I would also agree that your sister should check what he is looking at online. Often boys of this age will mimic language or behaviour, when they have seen porn or other age inappropriate material online.

unfortunately, from my experience, boys in Years 8 and 9 seem to be the worst are when it comes to making sexual comments to female staff or students. Schools are taking this very seriously, and rightly so. It has a very detrimental effect on female students and staff, and makes them feel unsafe in a place which should be a safe environment.

Original poster
StressyTimes · 17/09/2022 11:48

I'm grateful to all the posters with helpful advice which I will be passing on

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 17/09/2022 11:49

he seriously has a good record , is a very good student

Correction
he seriously HAD a good record and WAS a good student.

Everyone is "good" until they screw up and get caught. I have teen sons so know this isn't usual behaviour, it really isn't.

He will get a get a few comments when he gets back to school and other parents might want to encourage their children to stay clear of him. Your sister would do well to investigate his phone access and monitor him closely. It will be forgotten about but I won't minimise the stigma that will exist for a while. If he keeps his head down it will be forgotten about. If he gets defensive then he could be on a slippery slope.

EL8888 · 17/09/2022 11:54

The only “not fair” part about this situation is the way he spoke to a peer! What he said was grim and no one needs to put up with it. Good on the school for not condoning it. Your DN needs to learn people shouldn’t conduct themselves in this way. He doesn’t want to be singled out but he singled her out?! He needs to keep his head down and watch his mouth

@NameForAChange there is a vibe of entitlement and arrogance isn’t there

StopStartStop · 17/09/2022 11:54

Yep. 'Suck it up it's not the end of the world,' and 'teach your teenager to curse under his breath.' I also find flipping the bird discreetly makes me feel better without causing offence to the flippee.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/09/2022 11:55

StressyTimes · 17/09/2022 11:32

I have not complained & neither has my sister - she felt it was harsh - neither of us has said anything to him / in front of him to suggest we think the school is harsh - it is a private opinion that she had and discussed with me only

She has spoken to my DN at length about what is wrong here , why it is being treated so seriously, why he should not have said it , how awful the girl must feel etc etc - we are not taking his comment lightly st all

Those that are saying it's not a one off and he's saying it all the time are incorrect - he seriously has a good record , is a very good student - there were other boys present when it was said - and no there are no race issues at all here

All that means is that the 11, 12 and 13 year olds get him and other boys saying shit like this to them so often - and fear the bullying if they do report it and he gets into trouble - that they haven't reported him previously. But a 17 year old doesn't have to fear the wrath of angry 13 year olds in every lesson or on lesson changeover like they do.

He apologised immediately because it's the first time he's encountered somebody who isn't afraid of him, his mates or of being called a snitch/grass. Somebody not as vulnerable as his usual victims. That's all.

Fireflygal · 17/09/2022 11:56

he did not understand why when she accepted his apology at the time many later there is a complaint

Because she knew that he needed to be stopped. His apology wouldn't guarantee he wouldn't do this again to younger or more vulnerable girls. Whilst you are saying you are not justifying his behaviour your seem more outraged at the school and her complaining. Chamge your mindset - put the blame 100% on him and what he needs to learn.

The fact his mum feels 3 days suspension is harsh suggests she hasn't understood the impact of this. I would be utterly horrified if my 13 year said this and try to figure out where his views came from. I think I could be grateful he had 3 days out of school so I could work on adjusting his behaviour.

Curioushorse · 17/09/2022 11:57

Hi OP.

In answer to your question, if he does nothing else it'll be fine. Teaching staff really don't see 'tarnished records' that way. The information about why he's been excluded won't even have been officially shared. They won't think twice about it.

I know you're being lambasted a little on here- but I also think as a society we have a responsibility to stop letting boys think these remarks are ok. Yes, your DN probably isn't a horrible sexually predatory child- but I know I spent much of my life feeling vaguely threatened by men, and having to laugh off this sort of remark- which would have made me feel uncomfortable.

I think as women we've got to make it clear to men that it's not banter, and is unpleasant. I genuinely think half the men I know who said this sort of stuff when I was younger were basically quite nice, and would have been horrified if they'd realised how it made women feel. We have to change society.

Endlessdays · 17/09/2022 12:01

If he has SEN then it’s even more important that your sister takes this very seriously.

What can start as sexual harassment when he is 13, could become something more serious when he is older if he doesn’t fully understand what he has done wrong.

He is a child himself, and children make mistakes; but it is really crucial and vital for him to learn now of what is completely inappropriate behaviour, and WHY. (Not just because he will get a suspension). If he has SEN it may take more than one conversation to get him to understand and your sister needs to check his online activity.

The fact that he thought the girl didn’t seem bothered at the time and only complained later is irrelevant! That he and your sister don’t realise why that is, is worrying.

Maireas · 17/09/2022 12:07

Whadda · 17/09/2022 11:08

So he sexually harassed a student and your sister thinks a three day suspension is too harsh?

I can see where he’s getting his sense of entitlement.

I agree, there's a problem right there.

Maireas · 17/09/2022 12:08

Endlessdays · 17/09/2022 11:47

I would also agree that your sister should check what he is looking at online. Often boys of this age will mimic language or behaviour, when they have seen porn or other age inappropriate material online.

unfortunately, from my experience, boys in Years 8 and 9 seem to be the worst are when it comes to making sexual comments to female staff or students. Schools are taking this very seriously, and rightly so. It has a very detrimental effect on female students and staff, and makes them feel unsafe in a place which should be a safe environment.

I agree.

Scautish · 17/09/2022 12:14

The school have taken really appropriate action. It is extremely important that this level of sexual harassment is punished because hopefully others who also make such comments may think twice in the future.

you help your sister by making her understand this. But it’s good that your DN has accepted he was wrong.

Shittytittybangbang · 17/09/2022 12:15

13? Bit grim at that age - it’s actually quite an explicit and unusual comment from a lad. To be really clear, his behaviour isn’t ‘normal’ or ‘typical’. It’s creepy.

It’s sexual harassment, clear and simple. It’s unacceptable, clear and simple. That 17yo child is entitled to go to school without this sort of behaviour being normalised, clear and simple. Both of you should accept what the school has done is fair and proportional- spend the time educating this boy about respecting women and girls. you would be horrified if you knew what girls from the age of 11 onwards have to put up with from boys.

You and your sister may believe that DN feels you support the school, but kids aren’t stupid, they hear more than is said. I work in a school and deal with this sort of stuff. He could have been excluded for 5 days.

CatsAreCrackers · 17/09/2022 12:16

It is not normal for a 13 year old boy to have the audacity to tell a 17 year old girl that she gives him a hard on out of the blue. You may think he's a lovely hard working boy, but I can pretty much guarantee that this isn't the first inappropriate comment he has made to a girl. I think he is lucky that the school has only given him a 3 day suspension.

I would also want to look at his friends and his internet usage, especially in light of him having SEN. What are his issues, some would be irrelevant and some might be very relevant? Could his friends be showing him things and daring him to say things. He needs to learn right from wrong and not to follow his friends if this is the case.

Endlessdays · 17/09/2022 12:23

I’m also very surprised that your thread is titled ‘suspension woes’…. as if the fact he has been suspended is the issue here?

His ‘good record’ will not stay tarnished forever, but only if you and your sister take his behaviour seriously.

PaulGallico · 17/09/2022 12:25

SEN is a drip feed - just adding more to the story. It still does not make the 3 day suspension inappropriate. However if it is the case then there is still work to do with DN and his DM needs to step up rather than minimising.

Original poster
StressyTimes · 17/09/2022 12:30

Endlessdays · 17/09/2022 12:23

I’m also very surprised that your thread is titled ‘suspension woes’…. as if the fact he has been suspended is the issue here?

His ‘good record’ will not stay tarnished forever, but only if you and your sister take his behaviour seriously.

I'm. Not good at titles but as it was to do with a suspension thought that should go in the title

We are taking it incredibly seriously and I cannot stress enough how concerned we are that he said this and how it's been handled by the school - by that point I don't mean that he got suspended but the manner in which they advised my sister - some details I cannot give as outing

I do appreciate everyone's comments and advice etc

Will all school staff be told he is suspended or just the ones who teach him ?

Will the exact reason for the suspension be stipulated to all teachers or that he is "suspended" only

OP posts:
bringbackveronicamars · 17/09/2022 12:31

So.... he sexually harassed a girl at his school and got suspended.

Frankly, I'm glad the school took it seriously. And he should have apologised. That's not exceptional; that's basic decency after the fact when he realised he was probably going to get into trouble. This kind of harassment needs to stop.

Maireas · 17/09/2022 12:33

The mark will be noted on the electronic registration system, so those who teach him will know he's been suspended. There will be a reason from the drop down menu, but the wording may be general.
He will have a follow up meeting and may be monitored for behaviour.

Soontobe60 · 17/09/2022 12:36

StressyTimes · 17/09/2022 10:55

Thank you both for info - will pass on.

He apologised straight away and said he was in the wrong but several days later they complained . All my sister has learnt is that it was a teenage sexual comment about how hard he got thinking about her - yes she is not otoud that he said it but 3 days still feels harsh but we've no real experience of any of this and perhaps this is usual ?

So he sexually harassed a girl and thinks an apology is enough! Maybe now he’ll understand that sexual harassment is totally unacceptable. And your ‘sister’ needs to ground him for a month to back up the school.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2022 12:44

Teachers will be able to see he is excluded as he will be marked E on their register. If I went into the behaviour section to find out why it would probably say something like 'Sexual harassment (pupil)'.

Teachers may also hear from the kids.