Teachers not allowed in toilets?

[FrazzledEm]

There is an issue with girls vaping at my daughter's school, which we understood was dealt with last term. However, it appears it is still going on as my daughter (12) has told me the girls are vaping in the toilets & the older girls are supplying the younger ones. Anyway, when I spoke to the school about it I was told they try to keep an eye out but they cannot enter the toilets without knocking, which then alerts the girls...is this a school policy, or a more general one? Why can't a female staff member walk in without knocking and catch them in the act?! It seems crazy to me but I want to be armed with the facts before I go back to them. Any secondary teachers on here that can confirm or deny? It's a private school if that makes any difference.

Secondary school teahcer here. School are correct, staff can't just walk in. It places us at a risk of allegations, and is a safeguarding nightmare.

I have had to go into toilets occaisonally, but I knock first, stand in the open doorway and take a colleague if possible.

School and @Greenandcabbagelooking are correct. I'm also a secondary school teacher. We aren't allowed to go in unless as Green says, we have a colleague or stand in the open doorway.

Yep. Here I take a colleague, knock and speak before possibly entering but try to stay in the doorway.

Same vaping issue here.

This has gone on for generations. Used to be smoking now its vaping. How on earth we thought we could get away with smoking in the toilets is beyond me with the stench but it has ever been so that this is what teens do.

Sorry but how exactly does this affect your daughter? Are the vaping pupils trying to coerce her/bully her? If they are just vaping and not bothering your daughter, I wouldn't care. Let school/their parents deal with that if they get caught

Sorry but can you read it again?

OP didn't say it affected her daughter, she said it was an issue at her daughters school. I'm going to take a wild guess OP concern with it is that her daughter may end up involved over time.

This is why lots of schools got rid of the enclosed toilet 'room' and have it open to the corridor with sinks down the centre. We can see who is messing around/ vaping/ smoking/ bunking without walking into a confined space.

At my DC's school there is no outer door, so it's open to the corridors. There's still an issue with vaping according to my DC, I guess they do it in the cubicles.

Not at all the case at my school. We can go in the toilets, and in fact are positioned on duty there to hurry them up and stop them congregating.

Of course it could be affecting her, even if she's not vaping.

It stinks, and the room will be filled with the smell and clouds of the stuff. It also means that the vaping pupils spend more time in the toilets than they would otherwise, which means that either they are occupying cubicles, or they are hanging around the sinks, which means others might not want to go in and walk past them or won't find a free cubicle/sink. The fact that they're older, and also rule-breakers, can make them even more intimidating - and especially if they are just hanging around the sinks, watching and listening to the others going in and out.

We knew which toilets were the smokers' toilets at our school, and had to avoid them, even if it meant a much longer walk to find other ones somewhere, because you'd have to walk past this group of older 'rebellious' teenagers who would just stare at you, or make comments, if you tried to use the toilets/sinks. They wouldn't stop you, but it was very intimidating. And the fug of smoke was not very pleasant either!

But it's hard to know what the teachers can do if there is no policy for them to be able to go in unannounced. They can clearly smell the vaping I'm sure. Are they allowed to bring vapes to school? Could the girls in the toilets be subjected to bag checks? Could there be a change in policy where female teachers are allowed to go in in pairs, unannounced for a while, as a sort of crackdown?

My dc's school (where dh and I also both used to work) has just consulted parents on a proposal to install CCTV in toilets partly because of vaping, but also bullying, vandalism and truanting from lessons. Apparently out of the parents who responded, the vast majority were in favour. Obviously the CCTV wouldn't see into the actual cubicles! But I think it would be a deterrent.

Sorry but how exactly does this affect your daughter?

At my dc's school, some kids (especially the younger ones or shyer, less 'cool' ones) are scared of going into the toilets because they are full of groups of kids vaping. Even if the vaping kids don't necessarily actively bully, they are dominating the space in a bit if an intimidating way. Probably partly because they don't want the well-behaved kids coming in, seeing them and potentially snitching on them. One kid actually had an accident in a lesson because they'd been too scared to go into the toilets. Another student was really traumatised after being filmed on the toilet by one of the vaping kids. It's horrible.

Schools are pathetic! Of course two teachers can go in! It’s nothing to do with safeguarding allegations. It’s running away from ensuring acceptable behaviour by pupils. Why would two female teachers be a safeguarding issue? Don’t worry about the DC and their school experience! They should follow their discipline/behaviour policy and deal with the vaping DC. Yes. Go in and catch them. Why should any DC have to put up with this?

I would also say that teachers definitely would go into loos if a child had collapsed in one or there was another emergency! I’ve heard of DC being attacked in loos. So if teachers refuse to go into them, what then?

Because many teachers are falsely accused of inappropriate behaviour, ruining their careers and their lives.

I colleague and I once cleared out the girls Loos during lesson time. There were 14 of them in 4 cubicles. Cubicles must have had TARDIS like properties I was previously unaware of. And parents wonder why we don't like letting kids out to the loo in lesson time

I've been asked to go in (the girls loo) by male members of staff on a tip off by another student during lesson time. Mains doors held open to find large puffs of smoke.

I'm often asked to in to clear them out when the kids should be in lesson

This is true in my sons school too. Teachers not allowed in toilets so full of kids vaping, drugs, kids bunking off lessons. Other kids avoid the toilets because of this.

@MarigoldPetals
Thats my whole point. Teachers are more important than the children. Very few teachers are accused of anything if they go into loos is pairs. They have a duty to look after children. It’s not all about teachers. Some schools have awful kids but the teachers snd school staff are not much better.

You’d be able to smell the vape, so at our school, everyone in the loos would get their bags searched.

I’m amazed DC are so stupid in the loos. However if they know it’s a No Go zone for staff, it’s inevitable they will take advantage. However how is this acceptable for the majority of DC?

@TizerorFizz I've known students to vape in the classroom when the teacher turns their back and then deny it and call the teacher a liar even though they had seen the dragon breath plume and smell it. Admittedly often these students want to be removed from class anyway but some students are very brass necked.

Undoubtedly there are awful children. Being called a liar is clearly ludicrous in that situation. They should be removed and if they want to be, so what? At least gives the other DC a break and maybe an opportunity to learn!

Regardless of whether teachers can just walk into the toilets without knocking, why cant the school leaders act on the reports of the girls who say this is happening? In essence they are saying that they don’t believe the younger girls! So their lack of action is dismissing what the girls are saying.

Absolutely. The ethos is not supportive and not acceptable.