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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

No secondary school place!!

73 replies

Louloubennie51 · 02/09/2022 20:34

We moved to a new area in March 2022, my daughter was in year 6 and finished her primary education at a new school where she made friends.

When we arrived she went onto the waiting list for the local secondary school at number 6. I was quite confident she would get a place as it is a large school and we had quite a long time to go.

It was obviously hard for my daughter to move in year 6 but she has coped really well, especially as she has a stammer, which affects her confidence with new people.

Unfortunately she has not yet got a place. To make things worse, she has dropped down from number 3 to 4 on the list today! We were hoping for last minute movement when the staff returned from summer break but it is now to late for her to start with everyone else and I am worried that she might not get a place at all. She is devastated and I feel I have let her down.

We turned down a place at another school as she has her heart set on going where her new friends are and doesn't want to completely start over again. We also have an appeal hearing for the end of September.

I suppose I am just looking for any tips, similar experience etc as I am feeling terrible at the moment! My daughter has had issues with illness as well this year and I just feel like she needs a break!

OP posts:
Goawayangryman · 02/09/2022 22:19

Lots of supposition here. The OP may just be a regular parent who for whatever reason hasn't had to be that concerned about school places before now. To answer your implied questions...

Being without a place won't be material for an appeal
Being able won't matter unless it is a grammar area and even then all selective places are likely to be full. Otherwise schools are lawfully unable to take account of ability.
A history of lots of truly involuntary moves close to key transitions may be helpful when you appeal -not just, we decided to move house...
There may well be other really good schools with places, that are unpopular, but worth checking out and don't just go on years-old Ofsted or local reputation. A new head can change a school completely.

Home ed, if you are capable, imaginative, and financially secure can be great, either as a permanent option or whilst you wait for a state-funded place.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/09/2022 22:22

Schools can't remove kids whose parents moved over the summer until they have confirmation from their new schools that they have turned up. That means the next week or so is spent trying to find out where they are (because parents can be surprisingly cagey about this with the old school) and in the case of the ones who refuse to say or can't be contacted, the local authority has to conduct enquiries as they are deemed a Child Missing from Education from day 10, which also takes them time.

There's still plenty of opportunity for a place to come up this month.

Figgygal · 02/09/2022 22:25

Bloody hell its a bit late to come up with something now isnt it

YellowPlumbob · 02/09/2022 22:30

We moved at the worst possible time, due to circumstances out of my control.

The very first thing I did when we were refused our only catchment school (and the next nearest are 9 miles away…) was appeal.

This was in May. The appeal was heard in June, and the board voted unanimously to let both my DDs in - Y7 & Y10.

They were both 3rd on the wait list but I was told very clearly that it wasn’t reliable despite a lot of shuffling over the summer due to other appeals, ECHPs etc.

There were no other schools for us. And to make it more complicated, our catchment school is in a different council area. The council area we live in has schools 10 miles away. I spoke to both councils in great detail about it.

Did you ask for advice? Did you get it and ignore it? Did you look up how the system works?!

ArnoldBee · 02/09/2022 22:32

You plonker. If you are now home educating and turned down a place the LA has no obligation as she's being adequately educated. You take the place offered then appeal.if nothing is offered then the fair access protocol kicks in and a school has to take her. Ring the LA and take that place!

Jellybean23 · 02/09/2022 22:33

The irony of this is that kids usually make a new set of pals when they start year 7.

Houseplantmad · 02/09/2022 22:37

Go back to the school you turned down and beg for the place back.

Changemaname1 · 02/09/2022 22:38

I’d try get her in at the other school
a previous poster has pointed out their dc didn’t make it to the top of the list through the entire 5 years of secondary so if that’s the case for you then what ? How long are you prepared to wait

The actual education side of things is almost less of an issue here , you say you’d dd lacks confidence with new people . Starting year 7 is hard enough without starting weeks or months down the line when friendship groups are already established

if she starts the other school now there will be loads of new kids looking to make new friends , I know she made some friendships on year 6 but they are relatively new friendships and might change anyway as the kids are split into different tutor groups in year 7

Goawayangryman · 02/09/2022 22:50

Kids can do perfectly well when they join secondary slightly later than september in y7. my DC has plenty of friends from overseas or other areas that joined a bit later, in one case, 2 years later. I didn't find my best friends till year 9 or so. Let's not totally catastrophise things.

OP, you and her other parent (not just mum, folks....) fucked up a bit here but it's probably rescuable.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/09/2022 23:25

Goawayangryman · 02/09/2022 22:50

Kids can do perfectly well when they join secondary slightly later than september in y7. my DC has plenty of friends from overseas or other areas that joined a bit later, in one case, 2 years later. I didn't find my best friends till year 9 or so. Let's not totally catastrophise things.

OP, you and her other parent (not just mum, folks....) fucked up a bit here but it's probably rescuable.

Agreed. My dd changed in yr9. But it is important to get a place asap as the idea isn’t to home educate.

annoyedneighbour1 · 02/09/2022 23:36

You seem to think this is a wishy washy process. You probably think the appeal panel will just feel sorry for you because she doesn't have a place and she'll get an offer. It's not going to happen. You have absolutely no grounds to win an appeal.

You thought declining a school place would help you? Oh dear.

Tamworthian · 02/09/2022 23:39

Midpmcoffee · 02/09/2022 22:08

I’m going to take a punt op

you moved for a man?

Unnecessary.

Original poster
Louloubennie51 · 02/09/2022 23:58

And hugely wide of the mark 😂

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 03/09/2022 00:20

HipsterCoffeeShop · 02/09/2022 21:05

Agree with PP that parents should be properly advised about the admissions process.

You should not have turned down the place, any place is better than no place which is where you are now, the LEA has discharged their duty to find your DD a school place and they have no obligation to get you another one.

That said, are there other local schools you would be prepared to send your DD to? You can be on the waiting list for other schools too, you don't have to rely on the appeal to come through.

I would call central admissions and see what they suggest - I don't know whether you would need to apply direct to the school now or whether it still counts as part of the Y7 admissions process.

No, the LA still has a duty to find the child a place. Kids can't be denied an education because the parent has screwed up! But the place will be at any school which has spaces, and the OP only gets to choose between options now if more than one has the room. In turning down her second choice place, the OP has lost the right to that specific place for her child if that school is also over-subscribed, yes. She hasn't lost the right to ANY place.

Which can mean, at times, that a school in special measures on the other side of town is the only option... but the duty of the LA to provide an education does not evaporate because the parent has turned another place down. The duty is to the child and is not something the LA may abrogate. You have the legal right to a free state education at any point, while school age. You just don't have the right to the school of your choice, if other people's rights take precedence.

prh47bridge · 03/09/2022 00:33

I'm afraid others are right. As you refused the place that was offered, the LA is not under any obligation to come up with an alternative offer. At best, turning down the place won't help you at appeal. At worst, it may undermine your chances of winning. Given what you have said, the appeal panel may well feel you are trying to bully them into giving you a place at your preferred school. That won't directly go against you, but it may make them less inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

You will not win an appeal on the basis of your daughter's friends going to this school unless the school's case to refuse admission is so weak that any appeal would succeed. The appeal panel will be aware that friendship groups are highly fluid at this age so will not give any weight to this unless there is medical evidence that she has a greater need than other children to be with her current friends. To have a realistic chance of winning, you need to identify things that this school offers that are particularly relevant to your daughter and that she will miss out on if she isn't admitted.

HappyChloé2 · 03/09/2022 00:39

perfectstorm · 03/09/2022 00:20

No, the LA still has a duty to find the child a place. Kids can't be denied an education because the parent has screwed up! But the place will be at any school which has spaces, and the OP only gets to choose between options now if more than one has the room. In turning down her second choice place, the OP has lost the right to that specific place for her child if that school is also over-subscribed, yes. She hasn't lost the right to ANY place.

Which can mean, at times, that a school in special measures on the other side of town is the only option... but the duty of the LA to provide an education does not evaporate because the parent has turned another place down. The duty is to the child and is not something the LA may abrogate. You have the legal right to a free state education at any point, while school age. You just don't have the right to the school of your choice, if other people's rights take precedence.

Show quote history

They found her one, which the OP then rejected.

As I understand it, that was the end of their obligation.

Feetache · 03/09/2022 00:40

You turned down a place at a school. I assume one in your list. The LA have no obligation to you now

QueenofLouisiana · 03/09/2022 01:02

The appeal will check that the school/ admissions department applied the criteria correctly and fairly for your child. They may consider the need for a education which cannot be provided elsewhere locally (ie SEND without an EHCP) or the need for a faith school (if backed up with significant evidence). I’ve had parents as me to support an appeal on friendship grounds and I just can’t do it.
The LA does have to provide you with a school place and will do so at your nearest available school. That could well be the under-subscribed school 45 minutes away that didn’t do the GCSEs she wants. Being on home Ed, being “advanced” (the appeals panel will have been told that 50 times already by other parents) will make no difference.

clary · 03/09/2022 01:22

As others say OP, now you have declined the LA-offered place, they are under no obligation to provide you with a school place (despite what some posters say).

Yes, your daughter is entitled to a state-school education, but you need to find a school with a place if you want to take it up.

Honestly, if you wait for the school you like to have a space you may be waiting for five years. Just because it's big, doesn't make it any more likely for a space to come up.

You could have appealed earlier in the year; what I would do now is call any school in the area and see if they have a space. Especially the one you were offered (as the implication is that it has spaces, depending of course when you were offered the place).

In terms of the appeal, what are your arguments? The best ones will be relating to what the preferred school offers that your dd needs, that others do not. Examples might be - she plays clarinet and the school is the only local one with an orchestra/offering GCSE music; or similarly with a specific MFL, or sports club perhaps. These have to be things she already does tho.

Otherwise be prepared for a long-haul at home ed - nothing wrong with home ed in the right circumstances but I fear these may not be them. Hoping for your DD's sake that you are able to source a place for her.

caringcarer · 03/09/2022 01:28

You turned down a school place. Now your poor daughter won't be able to go to school. I would try to get back the place you turned down. If you have been offered a place and refused you are unlikely to win appeal.

Midpmcoffee · 03/09/2022 06:46

Louloubennie51 · 02/09/2022 23:58

And hugely wide of the mark 😂

And that is the sum total of your response to the advice on this thread

i wish your dd all the best. Poor thing has an upward struggle ahead of her

HappyChloé2 · 03/09/2022 07:05

Midpmcoffee · 03/09/2022 06:46

And that is the sum total of your response to the advice on this thread

i wish your dd all the best. Poor thing has an upward struggle ahead of her

Show quote history

Imagine being home-schooled by someone who can’t even understand the two-page (at most) policy on school admissions.

twilightcafe · 03/09/2022 07:18

So, OP - what's the plan now? You've got solid advice (which might not be what you wanted to hear...)

Also intrigued to know why you moved your DD during such a crucial school year.

Devilishpyjamas · 03/09/2022 07:20

I know people who have used internet schools such as Interhigh or my online schooling (something like that) when given no secondary school place that they felt was suitable.

not free & you would be tied in for a certain le cry if time but just mention it so you know the options

notdaddycool · 03/09/2022 07:25

the school I’m a governor of has lots of children in temp accommodation and hide turnover. Some literally call at 2pm saying we’re being rehoused 40 miles away tomorrow by the council and that’s it, they’re gone. If there are a reasonable number of people in rented there could be a lot more upheaval through the cost of living crisis. Not the way you’d want a place but maybe that doesn’t matter too much. If you’re somewhere with more people owning their own homes, I guess they won’t be as fluid.

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