Dame Alice Owen?

[lillyledbetter]

I have a bright, enthusiastic Year 4 DD. I'm thinking about secondary schools and whether or not it's worth going all in to tutor for the test schools. We live in Islington where the secondaries near us are fine but not great (in my opinion.).

Dame Alice Owen's test is an option and because we're not too far from Finsbury Park, this wouldn't be a crazy commute for us (Google maps says 33 minutes door to door -- but I've never done it).

Obviously tiny chance of getting in.

That said, I know little about the school besides its amazing reputation. Why is it so desirable? Is it really that much better than other secondary schools considered good in London (say, Parliament Hill or Camden School for Girls? -- both of which might be in reach of us, esp. if we move (which we have to do anyway at some point).

Any thoughts are very welcome!

Having achieved the "dream" of getting my children into DAO, I then discovered it is an actual nightmare.
The attitude of the school is cold and uncaring. I've never seen such a Victorian attitude to child wellbeing. They could not care less what your kid's difficulties are. They do not want kids with difficulties. They could not care less whether they are being bullied. They don't even care about overt misogyny, racism and homophobia. This is nothing to do with funding, as it gets plenty of private funding from parents and the Worshipful Company of Brewers as well as North London Football Clubs. This is to do with priorities.

The results the school gets are literally nothing to do with the teaching or quality, but the restricted, highly-academic intake and covert offrolling that takes place around year 9 and again at year 11. That, plus the relentless hothousing.
It is a selective grammar school pretending to be a state school. It doesn't get compared with other grammars, as it is nominally a "state school". However 90% of its intake are on exam entry or the siblings of exam entry. It is not a local school, it is a North London Grammar. And not a good one.

Is Dame Alice Owen a good secondary school choice for a child with Developmental Language Disorder (DLD)? Anyone with any experience? Thank you.

Afternoon All, I'm really looking for some advise from fellow parents out there about Dame Alice Owens. My daughter who is amazingly bright, creative and hard working is starting secondary school next year. We're thinking of putting DAO as our first choice as it's literally on our doorstep. I know it's a fantastic school from it's amazing results and my daughter loved it when we visited, however my mummy intuition worries about the pressure and the overly high expectations that are put on the children to get high grades. High grades make the school look good but what about the children's mental health and happiness? Can anyone comment. Schools talk the talk but I'm interested to hear from another parent who can speak from experience. As much as I want my children to get great academic results, I want my kids to be mentally happy & healthy. Does this school place high importance on this over academic achievements? Such a big decision

Positive helpful advise welcome 😊

Hmmm. I don't know about the wellbeing of the kids at DAO (my kids don't go there ) but when you really dig into the results of DAO, it makes me wonder if the teaching is all that good tbh. The results look quite impressive on paper but parents tutor to crazy, crazy levels to get their kids in, and will continue to tutor them throughout their time at school - and then do the same with their younger siblings. I think less able kids are farmed out after GCSE so it seems to me that the results aren't really down to the teaching but a selective cohort and very involved parents!

Only some of the cohort is selective though and I think just like with Latymer (and Harvard 😂) - the hardest bit is getting in but once you're in, it's actually not that pressurised.

The majority of the intake is selective I think, but again I wonder about this if there's such a high level of tutoring to get there in the first place, and when I've heard from parents that so many kids there just carry on being tutored throughout their time there?

You could say this for any selective school's intake I guess, but I just wonder if DAO really is the holy grail it seems to think it is, when the results aren't actually THAT much better that other state schools that have less selection and less pushy parents? Ditto the music intake - if kids have had thousands spent on lessons and coached to practice for hours each day, that's not really true 'aptitude' or 'talent' is it? Kids from less affluent backgrounds are totally disadvantaged...

Whilst I'm sure it's a really good school, reading between the lines I think that a number of the very competitive selective indies will have a more 'truly' academic cohort - there's more competition, and a better quality of teaching overall.

hi i have a child in year 13 and a child in year 10. Neither of my children were tutored . My son got in on an academic place which was incredible. He worked very hard. He’s bright but I wouldn’t say anymore than any other child there. There are parents that have tutored their children to get into the school and they still do very well on their own as the teaching is excellent. The teachers are extremely enthusiastic and they help every child to achieve their potential. My daughter got in as a sibling and she has to work quite hard not being highly academic but she enjoys the creative side of Owens. She receives lots of support both with her teachers and pastoral, who are an amazing team. I would highly recommend it.

Really appreciate the feedback everyone. My daughter Sofia is a self driven, over achiever & often I have to keep reminding her to relax and enjoy the moments so actually DAO may well give her the challenge that she craves. However, I do wonder whether siblings who may not be so results driven and adopt a more creative style of learning and experience can still thrive in that school 🤔. Her younger sister Is that exact type & I wouldn't want her to get swallowed up by all this expectation. Then again, as the school does have sibling priority, I suppose it would be fair to say that not every child that goes to the school is a mini genius lol. Jeez, I just want them to happy

That’s what we all want! I can only say from my experience that my two are very different however they are both achieving both academically and creatively. There are so many opportunities at the school with the extra curricular activities which they can take part in or not .

Thank you so much. That's so helpful & kind of you to share your experience with me. All the best everyone 😊

DS is there( via test) and DD got in via sibling policy.
It's a good school with lots of extracurricular activities on offer.
There are some very clever kids there and kids are keen to do well.

DAO has not been the school we had high hopes and dreams of. My DC is very unhappy there, teaching is sub-standard, many teachers are visibly unhappy, crying in front of the children as they cannot manage their disruptive and rude class. The behaviour of children is extremely poor for a grammar school. Any child who is different to the majority will struggle unless they are very tough and resilient. This school is a bad choice for a sensitive child particularly if from a minority group as they struggle to fit in.

It's sad to hear that any pupil is finding their experience of school distressing. What is the school doing / trying to do to deal with the situation?

Whatever image the school likes to try to encourage people to have of it, it is not a designated grammar school, btw.

That being said, poor behaviour is definitely not the prerogative of a fully non-selective intake.

Only 1 out of 128 Oxbridge students of DAO in the past 5 years is from intake based on locality.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_oxbridge_offers_were_ma#incoming-2308987

That tells you something of the school.

Oof! Islington!!!

there have to be better options nearer you???

its a really nice school and the sibling rule is great!
I see kids from there regularly and they are broadly a nice bunch

The school have a pastoral team who manage children with any issues - to be fair there are probably far too many children with issues so the team probably don't have that much time. Besides having some 121 chats with my DC, they haven't done anything much to support.

What are you on about?! Have you read the whole quote history?! I was replying to a specific comment that was asking if the children I knew at DAO were white and outgoing/academic etc 🤯