Dame Alice Owen?

[lillyledbetter]

I have a bright, enthusiastic Year 4 DD. I'm thinking about secondary schools and whether or not it's worth going all in to tutor for the test schools. We live in Islington where the secondaries near us are fine but not great (in my opinion.).

Dame Alice Owen's test is an option and because we're not too far from Finsbury Park, this wouldn't be a crazy commute for us (Google maps says 33 minutes door to door -- but I've never done it).

Obviously tiny chance of getting in.

That said, I know little about the school besides its amazing reputation. Why is it so desirable? Is it really that much better than other secondary schools considered good in London (say, Parliament Hill or Camden School for Girls? -- both of which might be in reach of us, esp. if we move (which we have to do anyway at some point).

Any thoughts are very welcome!

I know lots of families there and all are very positive about the school but I can't agree with the 'holy grail' comment because there are tonnes of good school options in North London and the travel to DAO for those coming from Islington is a right pain.

Our DC had a place there and we didn't take it up because of the journey - I have to admit, we were reluctant to give up the place and I was worried we might regret it later but, especially with all the rail strikes etc I'm really glad we opted to go with a closer option. As kids move up through secondary they often have so many pressures on their time and long journeys, disrupted travel etc does add extra stress. Saying that, there's no doubt it's a terrific school so, horses for courses.

Best 11+ advice we got was not to get hung up on the idea that there is one 'best' school for your child. There will be pros and cons to all of the ones you're looking at, and if you're engaged as parents (as you clearly are) and invested in making sure your child is in the right educational environment for them, you'll make a good decision

PS I have DC at one of the other two schools you mention so feel free to PM me if you'd like further info

Both my children attend DAO. I am surprised at the negative comments on this thread. I know there were some issues with a few children spouting negative comments but this was dealt with very swiftly. Teachers at DAO are excellent. Pastoral team are experienced in dealing with all matters. The music department is second to none. The extra curricular activities are varied with so many different options mostly held at lunchtime as they have an hour for lunch. The school is seeped in history and most of the children feel very special attending such a brilliant school.

I must say this is what I hear from al DAO parents, so was really surprised to read any negativity about DAO. It was certainly the most desired school for kids from my daughter's North London prep

all*

Not sure my disagree on the DAO being 'holy grail' of North london parents comment counted as negative but yep it is definitely not the holy grail for many North London parents from what I heard.

Anyone with any detailed insight on how competitive getting in on a music place is? I know the answer is 'very' - but roughly what levels are we talking at in terms of grades?

Grades didn't matter when we were applying in this consortium. It was down to passing the first listening test as to whether you were invited back to for a practical performance. And even if it was a good performance, it had to be a niche instrument to be considered. I heard mine play their piece, it was very technical and played very well (I'm quite critical so I don't say everything is fantastic at all) and it was grade 5 level at the age of 10 and the feedback was dreadful.

"The feedback was dreadful"? I didn't know they said anything to you ... that's surprising.

Not generally true about niche instruments .. plenty of violins and clarinets get in on music places. Mine left a few years ago but astonishingly there weren't shortages of any instrument.

We had written feedback and it was violin. I know of far lower standards on more niche instruments that did get in.

Isn't the headteacher a racist or something? That's what i heard.

What counts as a niche instrument?

Bassoon, oboe, French Horn? There used to be a list called Endangered Species and you could get free lessons.

Oh that’s interesting about written feedback, new to me. Well, it’s 15 years ago but my DS didn’t get a music place with two Grade 5 distinctions.

Grade 8 in Triangle should do the trick

Thanks. My daughter just started on bassoon in addition to her usual instrument so don’t think she’ll be ready to audition with it by the autumn, unless a squeaky rendition of hot cross buns would do!

I wouldn't rule it out ... if she is of a good standard on his first instrument, just do something short as a second study. Good luck!

If you are interested can just sent an FOI request to DAO to find our their music place instruments and grade historically. My friend find the school response is quite prompt.

And parents might find this interested too:

DAO have very high record of Oxbridge offers (probably one of the highest among all state "comprehension" school).

However, you will find only one of the student from 100+ oxbridge offers in the past 5 years is admitted by the locality criteria.

It might make you wonder is it because the selection criteria or the family (sibling) or the school that produce the high attainments.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/976023/response/2308987/attach/html/3/Oxbridge%20offers%20by%20admission%201.xlsx.html

Wasn't DAO the no1 state school in the country two years ago? I remember reading something about it

Wouldn't have been one of the top state schools - pretty sure they are all grammars. Henrietta Barnet for example is often up at the top. But probably one of the top "comprehensives" (despite not actually being a comprehensive). As I said before, plenty of people v happy there, some not. It's definitely a dream school for some families but plenty of others do not take up places offered there. It's obviously super useful if you have a number of children and a combo of boys and girls because if the first gets in then you don't have to worry about the rest.

It's ranked one of the best state schools in the South East.

www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/sunday-times-schools-guide-2023-7912961.amp

It's not great for SEN students but that's true of many schools with all the funding cuts.

Academically it's very good and kids are lucky to get a place

It is name top state school by these ranking as it excludes those academic selective state grammar schools. However despite it's name as "comprehensive", DAO is more selective than a lot of other grammar school in the country, of course it should do well academically..

@PreplexJ

Sounds like sour grapes to me. You're obviously very interested in QEB, Dame Alice etc.

I have commented on a number London superselctive schools including QEB, HBS, Tiffins, SPGS and "comprehensive" school such as DAO.

Surely one can easily dismiss any criticism as "sour grapes" - though I simply don't have enough DS/DDs to attend all these schools (sweet or bitter grapes won't know) . I do have first hand experience on the process of attending/passed the 11+ test of some (not all) of the schools mention above. ( - when I say passed, I mean rank high enough to get offer). And I do know acquaintances whose DCs in all of those schools above to give insights.

Lets focus on substance of the criticism. My comments are mainly regarding 2 points:

These schools that achieving top public results is largely attributed by the highly academic selective intake cohorts.

Being top of league tables, these schools are target for a subset of parents desperate to get their children into a very narrow range of schools at any cost. Any cost I meant substantial high exam preparation effort, long school commute time or uprooting family at high cost to move closer to these school even good local option is available, and little consideration of school fit in other aspects. A large population of the prospective parents are the ones who typical indulge/obsess in competitive parenting.

The above 2 points might make the schools sweet grapes for some. But to my point, I tasted a sample, it is really sour and not for me and a lot of other parents.