DH wants DC to reconsider A Level choices.

[NameChangeyForThis]

DS got his results today. We are all very pleased, but DH wants DS to reconsider his A'level choices. Although it is ultimately up to DS, DH usually is quite influential on him. Just asking here for advice.

His A'level choices are:

Maths (got 9 at GCSE)
Chemistry (got 9)
Music (got 9)
Philosophy and Ethics (got 8 for RS)

RS was actually one of DS's strongest subjects but he came out of the exam saying it was a stinker and there was a high scoring question on there they hadn't even covered. Of course, he is happy with an 8 after the exam.

My DH thinks my DS can end up at a very good Uni. All his other GCSE's were 9's. His Ad Maths was an A. My DH is now saying that if maths is his thing, perhaps he should be doing A'level Further Maths, even though he doesn't want to do maths at degree level. This would make his A'levels; Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and Music. My DH also thinks that since RS was one of, if not his strongest subject, he feels uneasy that at A'level he could end up with good marks in Maths and Chemistry, but on the day, if the Philosophy exam is a stinker then he could end up with a grade that stops him getting into a good Uni.

I know that an 8 is a very good mark, and this is a first world problem, and I feel a twat for asking. However, before my DH steamrolls my DS into changing, I thought I would ask MN for opinions as there are some well informed people on here.

Maybe your DH could do an A level as an evening class.

Do not let your DH force him to change.
Those seem like reasonable choices and your DS is happy with them.

DS is doing Highers and I really have had to stop myself from encouraging him to change from PE to Computing Studies.

He's picked a range of subjects that may be regarded as being too easy for some universities, but there's nothing written down and ultimately if he doesn't get in anywhere he wants then he'll have to do more Highers next year or do very hard Advanced Highers. But it will be his choice - all we should do as DPs at this stage is offer our opinion.

I think he should do the subjects he enjoys and he has a nice balance of interests that give flexibility post a level

I have 2 DS now at uni both were.excellent at maths and were advised to do maths and further maths by the school. I really wouldn't advise it! It's massively intense. I'd strongly recommend your DC sticks to his choices.

So basically in discussion between your son and his school/teachers a set of subjects were agreed upon that both were in agreement with and now because of one question and one grade drop based on that question your DH thinks he should change?

amd thinks that is a logical/rational choice

MadameMinimes - I have PMed you

Don’t do FM unless he really really enjoys maths. It’s hard - and boring (!) unless you love maths!

OK, I can see now that DS should stick with what he has chosen. I am a bit more chilled out about this than my DH. I know that he really cares about my DS and wants him to have a great education, but sometimes I think he projects a bit.

I just wanted to get an objective view of this. I can see that doing FM is actually not in his best interests and it is too much maths. Plus FM may not be recognised as an individual A'level.

I think my DH just got a bit carried away with his maths marks but I know that whilst he did well, he is not as passionate about it as the other subjects.

Don't know why my message quoted Dotcheck - it was meant to quote MadameMinimes

FM is only for hard core maths babies. If he isn’t, it’s far more likely to derail him than anything else.

Getting a 9 nine isn’t enough in itself, you want the school’s say so it’s suitable and a burning passion from him. Otherwise it will suck his time from other subjects screwing everything up.

Not even Oxbridge requires 4 A levels. If you get them and do well, it does demo you can carry a heavy workload, but it’s counterproductive if it’s going to drag your grades down. Some schools now no longer allow 4 A levels so it really isn’t essential. So what he could do is start with 4 and ditch one at the end of the first year, if he thinks 4 is too heavy a workload. It’s a strategic decision.

Other than this your son needs autonomy.

I think your husband is living vicariously through your son and also very obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about, so point this out tactfully and tell him to butt out.

I'm a sixth form college teacher. Our policy on enrolment (been doing a lot today) is not to suggest that a student should change to FM as it has to be their choice to do it. Also, they can only do it as a 4th subject. They therefore have to WANT to do it and it has to come from them, not from us or anyone else. If they don't suggest it then we don't suggest it either.

Your DH needs to stay out of this, however well meaning he thinks he's being. It's your DS's choice as he's the one who has to do the work. He has to want to do it and has to love it.

Like PPs, I have also seen so many students who do subjects as their parents have told them to do it and they hate it and do not do well at all even if they should be high achieving. They tend to switch off as they have no intrinsic motivation to do the subject themselves and they very much resent their parents for putting them in a difficult position.

Yep this happened to me. My father chose my A Level subjects, saying my choices “wouldn’t get me onto a good university course” - and two of those A Levels were maths and further maths - he also heavily steered me into my degree course choice (maths - I wanted to do English, total opposite!) and my masters (management - I didn’t want to do a masters at all). I absolutely hated them all, I was completely disengaged. Forced myself into studying, but I hated school and didn’t enjoy uni as much as I could have. I felt like I was always working hard on something that didn’t come naturally to me.

It took me years and years to right myself into a career that I like.

My father did it because he cared for me and he was a very academic person so knew the “system”, and he wanted me to get a good job, but I was doing subjects that he liked and not subjects I liked!

Not that I wish to project. But let your DS choose subjects that he’s going to enjoy studying.

Don’t railroad your son into doing something he doesn’t really want to. If it goes tits up, he’ll blame you for it. If his choice goes tits up, he’ll be upset but put it down to experience. He should be doing the subjects he is engaged with-nothing wrong with asking him if FM is something he’s considered but don’t push him. What is he thinking of doing post a level?

Why is he doing 4 A levels? It really isn't necessary unless doing a Maths/ Further Maths combo for two of them. No uni offers on the basis of 4 A levels does it?
DS did Maths/ FM and found the workload intense. He ended up dropping grades across the board in his A levels and missed his first choice uni.

This myth that FM isn’t counted as a full A level needs to be squashed. It’s a really good choice if you want to do a maths, engineering, physics or computing degree. Not recommended for medics as if they are only doing 3 A levels, maths, FM and chemistry isn’t seen as broad enough.

Two of my DSes did FM A level. They both went on to do maths degrees because maths was their first love. Perfect for them both. But probably not for your DS unless he really wants to do it. Chemistry is seen as quite a hard A level but doesn’t require any FM content.

If your DS is starting with 4 he may well want to drop one by Y13. Doing 4 to start is a good idea because the step up to A level can sometimes be a shock and favourite subjects at GCSE can change. His choices are right for him. Much better to learn a subject you enjoy and are good at than just one you are good at but not passionate about.

@NameChangeyForThis
Does your DS see himself as a scientist or an essay writer or a musician? Usually scientists do more than one science. FM is not necessary for lots of sciences, but has he looked at Engineering? Chemical Engineering might interest him.

I would not do 4 subjects either unless the 4th was FM. I don’t see what music adds to his portfolio because it can be a great source of enjoyment when not taken as an A level. I would get him to look at careers and university courses and consider whether his science interests are broader than just Chemistry. If he doesn’t want the non science subjects at university, but does want science, he’s very limited on science choices. To be honest, Physics would serve him very well but I’m sounding like his Dad now!!!

4 A levels is normal in some schools as often the 4th is dropped by Xmas in favour of the 3 the student is doing. My DD is doing 4 (including music) has 2 x G8 on 2 x instruments so probably like the OP’s DS sees it as a bit of a ‘free’ she loves music, plays in a ton of ensembles/orchestras etc (a bit like if you are a talented artist, art a level is significantly more enjoyable and easier). RS/P&E has become a very popular subject with DD’s generation so I can understand the attraction there. The only issue I could see with the OP’s DS choices would be if he decides to look at medicine as a career - would he need biology? Music is an Essay subject so that could hedge his bets.

His dad sounds worryingly controlling! There was probably only a whisker between some of the 9’s and the 8, so this sounds a lot of fuss about nothing.

ds must make the decision independently based upon what he enjoys and finds most interesting. Studying something which he loves will be motivation enough and in turn will likely lead to a fulfilling job

personally I’d get him some careers advice (morrisby test?) to help him work out his personal strengths, weaknesses and suitable careers, with the different qualification paths.

one difficult exam question is just that, one difficult exam question and it’s over reactive to dismiss an A level he enjoys based on one question.

I did:

Chemistry
Maths
Psychology
Philosophy (did really badly so dropped it after a year) - I enjoyed the idea behind it but I'm just terrible at writing essays.

And went on to do a chemistry degree at a well-regarded university.

I agree music is a bit of a strange one - I would probably also swap that for physics if he is interested in a chemistry degree.

Ps... further maths is 100% regarded as a full a-level

His choices seem mostly fine and I wouldn't shoe-horn someone into further maths unless that's their natural inclination or they're heading for a maths/physics degree. He won't do well in FM if his heart's not in it.
Be aware if he doesn't have physics he's cutting off options in engineering, architecture etc., and if he doesn't have biology he's cutting off options in medicine/dentistry/veterinary.
In his shoes, I'd be inclined to pursue music as an extra-curricular (if he's already got 3 x grade 8 then A level music will be unchallenging and a bit indulgent), and take on either physics or biology as the 4th subject to keep more options open. His current list has 2 facilitating subjects and 2 "soft options". It could be argued he'd be better with 3 + 1.

Teacher and parent if 6th form child here. Your dh needs to butt out. Let your ds do the subjects he wants and don't try to sway him.

Writing as a musician here. To dismiss A level music as undemanding if someone has grade 8 means you know nothing about the subject. It is one of the most demanding A levels as it is like three subjects in one. As said upthread, it is essay based in that there is a strong element of music history involved. This is very difficult to do without some knowledge of general history and what was going on in the other arts at the same time. Then there is the harmony and composition element, which has to be an extremely high standard. The final element is the performance.
By the way, grade 8 itself is nowhere near as demanding as it was when I took it in the eighties. At grades 6 and 7 piano, you played four pieces rather than the three you play nowadays. At grade 8, you went back to three but the B list was a complete three movement sonata rather than the one movement played now.

My father in law pushed my DH into Maths A level. He failed (possibly to annoy his father).

He would usually have done further maths gcse if a level was anticipated as suiting him. Good job your son has you advocating. As you know Maths a levels are on it for the real mathletes.

FM is a whole other level of maths. It's hard and you have to put a lot of work in to get a good grade. Kids who get a 9 easily at GCSE maths can end up struggling with FM. Your DS should choose the A-levels he is most motivated to do. Good luck.