Cost of 11plus tuition London

[BlackLambAndGreyFalcon]

Hi,

Would anyone be willing to share how much they pay for 11plus tuition (1 to 1) in London? I've been given a price and just want to see how it measures up. (And yes, I know that the answer will be "a lot"!)

Thanks in advance!

[winetime123]

£35 per hour, 1 hr per week

[BlackLambAndGreyFalcon]

@winetime123

£35 per hour, 1 hr per week

Wow! Is that one to one or group lessons? And definitely in London? I've been quoted substantially more than that!

[waiting2022]

£50 per hour one to one lesson online

[BonjourCrisette]

We used to pay £56 an hour (about five years ago). SW London, one to one lesson, in person.

[JulieBeds]

Like everything in life, there are tutors and then there are tutors. Some will charge low, some will charge high. Some will have experience, some will have none.

It's not really a one size fits all. This a sliding scale that has a number of different inputs - and that affects the output - which is the price.

You'll get an A-level student just out of college charging £20. Then you'll get an oxbridge graduate with two masters and a track record of getting kids into westminster, st pauls, kings etc over the last decade with their finger on the pulse and they'll be charging £150+

[WombatChocolate]

Word of mouth is good, and booking a year before you want to start tutoring should give you access to the better ones.

Most expensive isn’t always best. Most super selective state grammars, and popular independent day schools that take a good proportion of local people, have a number of very experienced and successful tutors who have been prepping kids for those specific exams for many many years. They don’t always charge the top rates, but they probably won’t be cheap.

Get to know a few parents in a couple or three years ahead of your kid and ask for recommendations. Parents can be rather tight-lipped about top tutors but are often more open when they are past that phase. If you know people with kids in the selective school who got in couple of years ago, they will often know the ‘known’ tutors who are still working. They can also tell you the going local rates.

We are just inside London boroughs and paid £40 per week 1-2-1 4 years ago. That was for a top local tutor who had been a primary school teacher and was a parent of 3 kids who had gone to the local selective school and who tutored 5 kids a year for some pin money, but wasn’t in it for big bucks. She didn’t tutor during most holidays, except the holiday just before the exam, and if there was an odd slot you couldn’t do, she wouldn’t charge. She was well known locally, especially by the local state school whose parents used her to try to even-up the ground with the local prep school applicants. She was excellent in giving parents an initial assessment for £50 and telling them if someone really looked like they had no real hope, and was succcessul in getting lots of scholarships. It was all word of mouth and she would take your name from Christmas of Yr4 onwards, and would confirm a place and tutor from January of Yr5, after the previous cohort had sat their exams. She was never willing to tutor anyone for more than a year.

Definitley ask around locally for names and prices. If you know any local teachers as friends, ask them too - they often know people who do it.

Also know that with some time and dedication and purchase of some books, most parents who have a reasonable level of education themselves can do it.

[TheGander]

I shudder when I recall the 11plus preparation years. You have my sympathies. In the end I self tutored because it was like trying to get info out of a Mafia boss- no one would share tutor details.

[BearBibble]

This isn't what you asked, but my experience of grammar school was that the studwnts who had been extensively tutored just to get them through the door.l really struggled with the rest of the curriculum. The point of the grammar school system is to give all students the chance to thrive in an environment that plays to their strengths. There's no shame in not going to a grammar school, and the cost in terms of children's mental health of never quite measuring up to their peers, always being at the bottom of the class, struggling to follow the lessons etc can be really significant. Those same students could be thriving in a secondary school.

[BearBibble]

(Apologies for typos! Trying and failing to multitask!)

[Plantstrees]

£50 per hour minimum here - south east but not London for someone who is good. You can get cheaper but they tend to be inexperienced.

[KittenKong]

A friend of mine does it - he’s about £60 and hour and is a good all-rounder up to a-level (apart from languages). He is very good and brilliant at advising the kids/being a mentor.
We had a Latin tutor for GCSE and he was £35

Through an agency costs more (obv)

[FoggySpecs]

Nothing really, DS went to a prep school. From the end of year 5, DS read the newspaper and listened to Radio 4 plus a bit of Atom premium and past papers from every school in the top 50, irrespective of whether he was trying for them. I told him to get on with it and prepare himself as the exam is incidental but preparation is key. He had no tutor. He also did all the challenges/homework extensions. He performed well.

[pkim123]

For top-level people in Central London, then you are looking at £50-100 per hour. Similar fees for interview prep. Yes, you can get some A-level kid for much cheaper, but do you really want to bet your DC's 11+ success on a teenager that you barely know?

[3WildOnes]

@BearBibble

This isn't what you asked, but my experience of grammar school was that the studwnts who had been extensively tutored just to get them through the door.l really struggled with the rest of the curriculum. The point of the grammar school system is to give all students the chance to thrive in an environment that plays to their strengths. There's no shame in not going to a grammar school, and the cost in terms of children's mental health of never quite measuring up to their peers, always being at the bottom of the class, struggling to follow the lessons etc can be really significant. Those same students could be thriving in a secondary school.

This is said a lot on here.

In my experience, the only children who get into the top London private and grammar schools have been heavily tutored and all seem to thrive once there. I don't see how you could pass the maths tests without being tutored, they all seem to go far beyond what is taught in a state primary.

The well regarded tutors in my part of SW Londin seem to charge £60ph.

[Nowfeeltheneedtopost]

@3WildOnes Sorry, that’s just not true. MyDD got into Tiffin girls 4 yrs ago with no tutoring at all. She was at a state primary school so it isn’t accurate to say the maths goes beyond what is taught. It is those kind of comments that put families who can’t afford tutoring off from trying for selective schools.

However, I’m not convinced of the benefits of selective education anyway. My DD ended up going to a co-Ed state comprehensive which we felt had far better sports provision than Tiffin and has absolutely thrived there.

apologies for slight derail OP.

[HighRopes]

My dds also got into Tiffin without paying a tutor - though we did do home preparation with a mix of maths apps, past papers and DH teaching some of the KS2 maths curriculum. Maybe an hour a week for a year (whenever suited us, no fixed time) with more time per week in the autumn term before the exam. So if you can do that, you don’t need a tutor. Though a tutor would probably make it easier in some ways.

I would say, having done it twice, that if they’re ‘exceeding’ at school, it’s less the content (except parts of maths) and more the exam technique and having some idea how to answer the VR/NVR questions that they just haven’t seen before if they’re at a state primary. So I would want to know what the tutor focused on etc, and for that to match with what I thought my DC needed, as well as price.

[3WildOnes]

@Nowfeeltheneedtopost

@3WildOnes Sorry, that’s just not true. MyDD got into Tiffin girls 4 yrs ago with no tutoring at all. She was at a state primary school so it isn’t accurate to say the maths goes beyond what is taught. It is those kind of comments that put families who can’t afford tutoring off from trying for selective schools.

However, I’m not convinced of the benefits of selective education anyway. My DD ended up going to a co-Ed state comprehensive which we felt had far better sports provision than Tiffin and has absolutely thrived there.

apologies for slight derail OP.

Did you honestly do not extra work at home with her? The tiffin exam covers the whole of the ks2 maths curriculum which they wont have covered at school at the time of sitting. The same as most of the selective private schools. I dont see how it is possible.

[WombatChocolate]

People muddle up paying for a tutor with home tutoring. Some think that unless there is a paid for tutor, getting in is impossible. There are posts on this thread that suggest this. Some forget that many parents are perfectly capable of prepping their kids for entrance exams and that actually a parent tutor is always more invested than a private tutor. Just head over to the ElevenPlysExams forum to see the posts from parents who have a military precision prepping plan, that results in their kids being in the top 5 to QEB or St Paul’s or similar. For those who have got the time and inclination to do the research, plans the activities and buy the books, they can do a great job. Lots would prefer to pay instead, because they haven’t got the inclination or confidence or don’t want to face the potential conflict with their child whilst doing it. But lots of families can’t afford tutoring and through sheer hard work get their kids in.

Regarding zero prep of any type, very few will get a place at the super selectives but quite a lot at the standard state grammars and less over subscribed independents. In every cohort, there will be a tiny number who are just so naturally super whizzy and exceptional, that given perhaps one practice paper or even none, their natural ability does just shine through. However, this will be a tiny tiny number, and most of the very bright who have had zero prep will be beaten by those who might not be quite so very bright, who have learned time management, careful checking, and are familiar with the styles of questions required to work accurately under the tight time conditions, to get the top marks, where a mark kr two can make all the difference.

[Nowfeeltheneedtopost]

@3WildOnes The Tiffin exam does NOT cover the whole of the KS2 curriculum - that’s my point. The Tiffin girls website makes quite clear the exams assume the curriculum up to end y5 has been covered. I chose to believe them. What is clear is that at stage 2 the girls need to be capable of working out what maths techniques are required to answer a question. So presumably there may be some prep that could help with that.

We honestly didn’t do anything extra at home. I should say I knew my DD was being encouraged at her primary (along with a small group of 5 or 6) to do extension questions in their maths lessons for the topics taught up to y5 (and start of y6) so i thought she would have a good chance of being able to work out how to answer the questions.

Tiffin girls only do maths and English so no VR or NVR required - I appreciate some practice of those would be helpful if the exams included.

I know OP asked about cost of tutoring and I don’t want to derail but I do think it is important we believe schools such as Tiffin when they try to make clear you really do not have to cover curriculum beyond what is taught at state primaries.

[3WildOnes]

@Nowfeeltheneedtopost sorry i think I was getting confused with KGS who do test the whole of the ks2 curriculum. I do think your daughter is pretty unusual in gaining entry without having been tutored though. We all know that going over the stuff we have already learnt helps it stick better or we wouldn't encourage our children to revise for their GCSEs.

I know a lot of children who have gone on to Tiffin, KGS, Hampton, LEH, St Paul's...every single one of them has been heavily tutored. Either by a paid for tutor or at home by a parent. Even when I attended one of these schools, years ago, all of my classmates had been tutored.

[WombatChocolate]

I would suggest that your DD had some extra prep (even if pretty limited) via school. To get the place with no prep at home or tutoring IS unusual. It isn’t impossible, as I said, but it is unusual. There will always be some exceptionally bright students who can do it cold, without having previously seen papers, but they will be a tiny number. The typical bright but not super bright student won’t get a place without any further work. So whilst it is incorrect for people to say it’s impossible to get places without tutoring, it’s also incorrect to indicate that it’s highly possible without any further prep or familiarisation.

And I think you’re right that the presence of VR and NVR can make a big difference. Those kind of Qs are the kind of thing which without familiarisation at least (and that really could be just having a go at a couple of papers so you know what the Qs look like rather than full scale preparation) you really are unlikely to perform as well as you could. The timing is so tight and the scope for basic errors is so high, that even the very clever usually need some prep to get the scores high enough for super selectives.

Of course, lots of state grammars and independents are selective, but not to this level. Even in those, most will have had some prepping from home or their previous school or tutors, but when the competition per place isn’t quite so high, there is more scope for students who are naturally bright to do well enough based on what they’ve been taught without extra input.

Its a really difficult one regarding messaging from schools and to parents. On one level, the school is right to say nothing beyond the standard school curriculum is needed and no further prep. In an ideal world, no-one would prep and it would purely be based on innate ability and intelligence and a curriculum taught equally well to all students. And yet, we know that tutoring and prepping is rife and that for lots of schools the level of competition so fierce, that for the vast vast majority of bright but not genius kids, if totally unfamiliarised and competing with those who have been tutored and prepped, they will be at a disadvantage against the competition.

There’s always a tension. On one hand many parents would like the kids to just do the exam and natural ability to win out. However, it feels high stakes to many parents, so they can’t leave it to chance and feel they must do all they can to advantage their child in a harshly competitive system - and what people do just grows every year to madness levels.

The PP whose daughter got a place at Tiffin without prepping and who actually then went to a local comp, clearly isn’t the typical parent applying to the super selective schools. For her, it seems the stakes didn’t feel so high. Perhaps several things came I to play which might not have been typical - maybe the DD being so super intelligent that concerns about being beaten by others just weren’t the concern they are for most? - maybe the fact that they just wanted to have a go and weren’t wholly sold on Tiffin, so didn’t mind too much in a place didn’t appear - indicated by the fact that they didn’t go with Tiffin once it was offered anyway but chose a local Comp?

Every year, large chunks of bright students are entered for Tiffin and other selectives who haven’t been prepped. Sometimes it’s just that selective schools weren’t on the radar of those families until late in the day and they didn’t get round to prepping. For lots, they are told their kid is bright and should ‘have a go’ and so they do that, without a strong desire for a place and therefore no huge disappointment if it doesn’t come off. Most of those entrants don’t get places. They go off perfectly happily to other schools. And then there are the rest of the entrants, who range from having had a bit of familiarisation, to perhaps a few months or year of tutoring or parental inout for an hour a week, to those who have been working for 5 hours a week or more since they were 8 or younger. The levels of desire or obsession with getting a place range from being quite keen, to totally single minded and dedicated. And it’s true that places go to families who have done some prep but didn’t put in the daft hours.

It’s such a hard thing when the 11+ is a one-off opportunity. For some families, the alternative schooling options are good and the stakes over the 11+ not so high. For others, they feel education is the route out of a lifestyle which isn’t favourable and that the alternative schooling options are poor. And people know the numbers applying per place to some of these schools and have that sense that if they want to guarantee the best chance, they really do have to put the time in.

And then there’s balancing that against family life and children being young. For many that’s a real tension. They are willing to ask their kids to do some work each week, but most people don’t want to drive their kids too hard, or create conflict in the home about the work, or build high expectations which might be dashed. It’s hard for people to balance that against the sense of 11+ being a one-off opportunity and the knowledge that lots of prepping does go on. Those who really will plan to the nth degree for years ahead and whose children have never known anything other than a hard schedule of work outside school are no doubt in the minority, but there are sizeable numbers working like that. And where do those who are bright, but have never seen a paper before or thought about the 11+ exam until the week before they take it, sit next to those other children?

For me as a parent, it felt important to hold as lightly as I could to 11+. That wasn’t easy for me, but it was important for my own and children’s sanity. I really wanted it and was prepared to do some work, but at the same time, I knew not getting a place really wouldn’t be the end of the world or opportunities. Sometimes people forget that.

[Nowfeeltheneedtopost]

@WombatChocolate I think that’s a really excellent, balanced post.

I agree that we were probably not typical. Mainly because I was not totally sold on a selective education. I went to a selective private school and, while I thrived, I have always been aware of how many of my friends emerged feeling “not quite clever enough” because they’d had years of comparing themselves only with other very clever children.

I was keen to give my DD a secondary education that would sustain her confidence in her academic abilities as well as giving her sporting opportunities (which are an important aspect of her life). That meant, for us, her taking the exam without tutoring. If she got in then it was likely she’d be “comfortable” there academically and if she didn’t then it was unlikely to be the right school for her.

But you are totally correct, a key element of the decision is what other options you have and we were extremely fortunate to have a great comprehensive option. I appreciate others may not have this.

I’m conscious I really have derailed thread and it is not all about me and my DD! I’ll leave the thread now and wish everyone making decisions re secondary schools the very best.

[user30]

I used Tayberry.org.uk and paid £40 an hour for 1:1 on line for the first few sessions but then a booked a block of lessons and they reduced it to £35 an hour. He had about 30 lessons over a year and passed. DD is starting with the in September. If you give my name - Tara Melling - they will give me one free lesson and you don't have to pay the registration fee. The company also teaches cared for children local to them foe 11plus which made me feel less middle class guilt about the whole thing. The tutors are really fun and energetic, DS really enjoyed it and has asked to keep the sessions up after his exam.

[BlackLambAndGreyFalcon]

Apologies all for starting a thread and then not coming back to it to update it.

I'm not really looking for a tutoring vs no-tutoring discussion as we've already decided to go down that route. Maths in particular is not my strong point and whilst obviously we will support with homework and practice at home we really need a tutor to take the lead here.

I've accepted the quote that I was given. It was £75 p/h. I was expecting around the £50 mark so I originally thought this was a little high, but I was very impressed with the tutor and I really think that my DD will both strongly benefit from her sessions and also enjoy learning with her.

[SandD]

Hello lovely parents,
I have a 10 year old boy and I am aiming to get him into one of the good independent schools. Like all parents we are aiming for City of London, St Paul’s, kings college and Hamptons. He is going to a state school, very bright in maths and average in English. He has been tutoring 1-1 in English over last year but he recently did a mock for QE ( though not our target school but we wanted him to practice). He scored 80% in maths but only 50% in English- now I am very worried about it and thinking if he is benefiting from his tutor- I have helped him a lot do- lot of question papers etc and I know where the problem is… he doesn’t read the text properly. Shoukd I change his tutor? I am paying around 65/hr for his english tuition plus spending so much time and energy.. would a change in tutor at this stage help him? The current tutor is nice, praises him a lot but o just need honesty and see a good score?we recently started Atom and he gets a score of 110-130 ( once!) in english mocks and levels at 8 in english and 9 in Maths. I know it was his first mock and my son was scared too..

we have some safe school options as well but since I have worked so much with him I really would like him to get a place in one of the top school. I can’t wait for this 11+ to be over!

any advice would be deeply appreciated.