Help I am not sure whether I made the right choice for our DD by going to our local comprehensive

[daysem]

Hello dear mums,

My DD is in an outstanding local secondary in New Malden . All our neighbours love the school but I am not sure it is the right school for my DD.
My DD took the grammar tests and some independent school tests. She was offered places in several independent schools ( not the super selective ones) but as money was tight we went with our local comprehensive, which was praised by local parents.

At the start of Year 7, my DD sat the Cats4 test and based on her Cats4 test, her school sat her targets. Her current GSCE target is 6 plus. I am aware that my DD is not a genius. She is very good at certain subjects but not a budding scientist. Still, I am a bit upset that her current school does not stretch her more and does not have higher expectations on her. I am not a tiger parent but I want the school to stretch her and not give up on her .

Here is the question, financially it would be hard but should I look into moving her to an independent school before Year 9 ( before GSCE’s) where she might be supported and stretched a bit more.

Did anyone experience this? If your child is relatively average do you think they are better off in an independent school in a small class size?

As a parent I want to make sure that she has the best opportunities and I feel like I failed her. Sorry for the really long winded message. Please be kind in your comments.

Hi OP, my DD went to the school your DD is at. We were very happy with it, she was definitely stretched and very importantly she was happy and made a circle of lovely, supportive friends. She had been at private prep (LEH juniors) and did very well there but she was very anxious and just not happy. The ultra competitive atmosphere just wasn't good for her. She did very well at her GCSEs and got the support of her wonderful drama teacher to successfully apply for a place at BRIT School to study Musical Theatre. This is her absolute passion but, as an academic high flier if she had still been at LEH I feel she would have been pushed to stay on in the school's sixth form and follow the traditional academic pathway which just isn't what she wants.

It has been six years since DD left but hopefully things haven't changed too much.

@OnGoldenPond that is very reassuring. I am glad to hear your DD has enjoyed her time at our school and was supported well.

Funnily enough, I remember reading some of your earlier posts on Mumsnet before deciding on the school as I could not find out much information on our local comprehensive. The School is not very strong with communication in relation to targets etc. Perhaps it is the case with all secondaries. Other than the 5 min parents' meeting with each subject teacher we had no contact with anyone in the school. Obviously, Covid made things a lot harder.

Hopefully, my DD is supported well and remains happy as your DD. Thanks for putting me at ease, it is really appreciated.

My dd went here ( left 7 years ago)
She was not top set but thrived there. I kept a close eye on her development and she was supported greatly by the school.
ongoldenpond I think we dmed years ago about this! I've name changed I think

I think the more arm's length approach to communication with parents is more a characteristic of the transition to secondary than than a particular feature of Coombe in my experience. It was the same with DS's private secondary. The intention is to get DC to take more responsibility for their academic progress at this age. I did find that they got in touch if they had any concerns.

@AuntieMarys

My dd went here ( left 7 years ago) She was not top set but thrived there. I kept a close eye on her development and she was supported greatly by the school. ongoldenpond I think we dmed years ago about this! I've name changed I think

Thanks for the help you offered back then, it all worked out really well. Glad it was as positive for your DD

@AuntieMarys glad to hear that your DD had a good time at school. My DD is not top set and my worry was that the school only concentrates on top set kids or the troubled ones.

It is good to hear that middle sets are not overlooked. Hopefully, things did not change much in the past 7 years.

I think it sounds like your dd might be one of the dc I think benefit from independent schools - but only if she needs a little extra to achieve her best rather than being very naturally self driven. My observation has been the very bright and very motivated do well anywhere but the middle, esp those less self driven or who might coast or drift down to the median level in a school do better with less ability to hide, higher average attainment and potential for wide range of extracurricular options.
However, your current school also sounds like a perfectly good option, esp if money would be tight paying for school. In that case you might be better with a tutor.
It is really tough making these decisions.

@ChocolateHoneycomb
There is plenty of evidence to show that high quality teaching makes the most difference: for all children. A bright child that suffers a string of supply teachers often dips a grade. Interrupted and poor teaching do bring attainment down. The bright child might seem ok but we do know poor teaching does them no favours either. Money for tutors might fill the gaps but poor DC don’t get that. So it’s not just motivation either. It’s teaching and, falling that, parental resources.

[quote TizerorFizz]@ChocolateHoneycomb
There is plenty of evidence to show that high quality teaching makes the most difference: for all children. A bright child that suffers a string of supply teachers often dips a grade. Interrupted and poor teaching do bring attainment down. The bright child might seem ok but we do know poor teaching does them no favours either. Money for tutors might fill the gaps but poor DC don’t get that. So it’s not just motivation either. It’s teaching and, falling that, parental resources.[/quote]
Yes, that's absolutely right. Most of the pedagogic studies of education show that the quality of teaching is the biggest factor in educational achievement (along with support and encouragement at home). I posted elsewhere on these boards that although parents often consider small class size a major benefit, the data actually shows that DCs are better off in large classes with great teachers than small classes with less-good teachers, at least at secondary level (the evidence is slightly less clear-cut at primary level).

@TizerorFizz @thing47
Thanks. Quality teaching makes sense as an important factor. I still think it is hard to do your absolute best-if you are in an environment where the average attainment is low-mediocre and/or it is a social disadvantage to achieve and /or teachers are managing others with much greater needs the majority of the time. I went to a school like that - I was lucky and was highly self motivated but suffered enormously from being different, geek etc.
One of my siblings really benefited from a tutor in maths, which she was weak on and lacking confidence. She went from predicted C (pre numbers) to an A*. I think targeted input like that can be helpful.
however, having read back through the whole thread now, the OP sounds like her dd is already in an excellent school so she may well be concerned about nothing. I feel her angst though as it is easy to generalise but when it is our child the ‘general’ doesn’t always feel reassuring.

Surely quality teaching and class size aren't independent variables?

Won't teachers be able to improve the quality of their teaching if they have fewer students to manage, fewer books to mark, less behaviour management to do, more time to give individual attention etc etc

@Alexandria12
That depends if you measure quality teaching on marking books. None of what you list improves subject knowledge, teaching ability raising standards for all children (and state teachers cannot pick and choose who they teach) and aptitude for the job. Like many jobs, not all teachers are equal in ability. I’ve seen disorganised teachers, ones who don’t cover the curriculum, ones teaching subjects they are not qualified to teach, schools using a huge number of supply teachers, churn of teachers being detrimental etc: class size makes little difference when all this is a major factor. A good teacher does explain well and see individual DC if necessary. They will also have enthusiasm and great skill in the classroom.

A level classes when DC have selected themselves can be easier to teach.

I agree with Tizer. Some of the best teachers my state educated kids had were in the humanities, which were not set and so classes were large. But because these teachers were great at their job, they were able to teach everyone, maximise achievement for everyone and maintain order without much effort.

Everything @TizerorFizz says. Just to clarify, I wasn't offering an opinion on the importance of good teachers, I was saying that this is what the vast majority of pedagogic research shows IS the case. My knowledge is admittedly a little out of date as I no longer work in this field, but as far as I know studies continue to show this to be true.