Help I am not sure whether I made the right choice for our DD by going to our local comprehensive

[daysem]

Hello dear mums,

My DD is in an outstanding local secondary in New Malden . All our neighbours love the school but I am not sure it is the right school for my DD.
My DD took the grammar tests and some independent school tests. She was offered places in several independent schools ( not the super selective ones) but as money was tight we went with our local comprehensive, which was praised by local parents.

At the start of Year 7, my DD sat the Cats4 test and based on her Cats4 test, her school sat her targets. Her current GSCE target is 6 plus. I am aware that my DD is not a genius. She is very good at certain subjects but not a budding scientist. Still, I am a bit upset that her current school does not stretch her more and does not have higher expectations on her. I am not a tiger parent but I want the school to stretch her and not give up on her .

Here is the question, financially it would be hard but should I look into moving her to an independent school before Year 9 ( before GSCE’s) where she might be supported and stretched a bit more.

Did anyone experience this? If your child is relatively average do you think they are better off in an independent school in a small class size?

As a parent I want to make sure that she has the best opportunities and I feel like I failed her. Sorry for the really long winded message. Please be kind in your comments.

We move dd to private in year 9 as she wasn't being challenged in state.

You know your child and if you think the school will support her learning then maybe see how she progresses.

Thank you @WannabeGilmoreGirl. That is very helpful. I think as a mum sometimes we should go with our gut feeling.

This particular state school's results puts them in the top 5% of state schools in the country though. Which is really very good considering the SS grammars will be creaming off the very brightest. It's non-selective and over 40% get 7-9 in Maths at GCSE (2019). If so many of the girls are doing so well and presumably reaching their potential, why wouldn't your DD be one of them? If she's happy, I would give it time.

Also, my DS's school gives a target grade each term based on how he has done that term, so it might be like that.

@BumbledBee thanks I am aware of the results of the school. I am not moving my DD anywhere for the time being, I am just keeping an eye on how she gets on. As you say things may get better in Year 8.

I think the target grades might be weird for all of them this year and last because they aren't used to using CATs instead of SATs. I think they've been given a formula to convert them to ongoing performance, but it may not be all that accurate.

We have the opposite problem to you with DD2 (year 8) who clearly is very good at CAT tests, and now has such high targets that she probably won't meet them at any point in her Year 8 and 9 school journey (apparently she should have been achieving a 5 on a full maths GCSE paper at the beginning of year 8, which was impossible as she hasn't been taught half the stuff, especially since they hadn't set at all for Year 7 because of bubbles). I'm assuming the schools will just keep an eye and adjust, rather than that these CAT grades will explain how they will perform.

[quote daysem]@BumbledBee thanks I am aware of the results of the school. I am not moving my DD anywhere for the time being, I am just keeping an eye on how she gets on. As you say things may get better in Year 8.[/quote]
Sorry OP, I'm sure you're aware of the results - I meant it positively, as chances are high that your DD will do well at the school, especially as having a supportive, engaged parent is a key component. All the best.

Thank you @BumbledBee. I hope, I did not come across as impolite. My DD is only in Year 7, I think I should not place too much emphasis on target grades at this point and trust the school that they know what they are doing. After all, they have a very good reputation.

@minisnowballs I am completely with you. I am not sure how helpful CATS results are in terms of setting targets. I read the below research that suggests that the CATS system could be limiting overall progress.

www.the-educator.org/cats-system-limiting-overall-progress-children-say-almost-4-5-secondary-school-teachers/

As you say, it can be stressful for high achieving children too. My DD has a friend in her tutor group who has very high targets and the poor girl is very stressed out as it is impossible to meet these targets. I wish the schools would not start talking about targets this early on.

Unless you’re looking at Oxbridge then predicted a level grades will matter much more than GCSEs, as long as she gets good passes (particularly in maths and English) .

Again, not saying that you are, but I would make sure DD isn’t picking up on any of these feelings or feels any pressure to get into a good uni. There’s many successful pathways through the world that don’t involve uni.

So much can change between now and university that I would take each year as it comes. That she’s happy, supported, and engaged is the main thing to focus on for the next couple of years.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of children in this years cohort surpass expectations set so early on, as these “targets” will be far more impacted by Covid and missed schooling than say targets set in year 9 or 10.

It sounds like DD is doing well and you’re very supportive, and at this point that’s really all you need

I also have a DD in year 10. Her targets were much lower. My experience is they don't mean much - they've been adjusted and exceeded and no longer seem to be of any interest to any teachers. So I'm not that worried, apart from the fact that DD2 found it a bit demoralising -and it was fine after the teacher had explained why they looked so weird. A good school will look at the child, not the single test!

My DDs are older and so did do SATs - and did very well in them. Nevertheless they were set targets of pretty much B in everything based on those SATs. And that was fine, because you can't predict how someone will do at 16 based on what they're achieving at 11!

The school absolutely did not let them coast. In both their GCSE years they had GCSE support groups targeted at every cohort, aimed at getting them maximum grades. So there was a group for people sitting on the cusp of the 4, to support hem in hitting it and going for the 5 too, there was a group for the 6-7 cohort to hit the 8 and so on. They definitely stretched every child. DD1 did a mix ofold and new GCSEs, got three 8s, 6As and one B which was a single point off an A. DD2 did all new style GCSEs and got a 9, two 8s, five 7s and 2 6s, one of which was Physics and a bloody miracle as she had been predicted a 4.

They both worked bloody hard and were supported every step of the way - in our ordinary comp in our non-leafy town. Look at your school's results before taking drastic decisions.

Spend those 20k 30k 20k on lovely educational trips with you to museums, abroad, summer schools etc especially around her interests that is motivated by.

You can spend that money on different ways for all your benefit

@pointythings where do you live perhaps we should all move to your area? :) It sounds like a great school. Our local comp has good results, there is no question about it. That’s why I am not making any drastic decisions as my DD is happy there for the time being.

@minisnowballs that’s reassuring that targets do not mean much in Year 7. As you say a lot of things change along the way.

@user1471504747 I have no obsession with Oxbridge, Russel Group will do :) I am not gonna lie, I would indeed want my DD to go to a good Uni but at the end of the day, it is what she wants that matter.

Getting into good uni she needs to stay happy snd motivated znd enjoy her subjects or subject. You can support that at a state school. And if you have spare money to support travel and experiences and other things etc that will go a long way too.

It is a great school, we're very lucky. It has a stubborn cohort of students and parents who do not engage with education at all, which is a reflection of the town I live in - parts of it are in the bottom 10% of the various indices for social and economic deprivation and there isn't an easy fix for that. Especially with a government unwilling to invest in its population. However, the ones that want to work are supported to do well, they aren't draconian about behaviour and uniform, really tackle bullying hard and have a fully non-uniform 6th form. Both my DDs got into good unis, DD2 into the top one for the course she wanted to do.

You sound like an incredibly engaged and supportive mum, so your DD will do well. And if the school turns out to be disappointing, you'll deal with that too.

OP, you need to ask the school (or check on the website) how they do target setting. I'm a governor of a good comprehensive and our school re-evaluates targets at the end of each year, based in how students have performed in exams. In our school she would have targets for the current year, not just for GCSE. And if she exceeds this year's targets, then targets for next year would be proportionally higher. So talk to the school, but don't assume a private school will be better, many aren't.

The more my children go through school the more convinced I am that private education for most children isn’t a great use of money when you have a decent state school on offer. I’ve one who came into year 7 from a failing primary who I simply couldn’t get up to selective independent level in English and he left with 8/9 at GCSE and AAA at A level. Middle one is in GCSE year with targets of mainly 6’s, I am certain she’ll get mainly 8’s maybe 1 x 7 and a couple of 9’s. Youngest , no targets yet but he’s a smart ish cookie. No way do I wish I had Paid for secondary. Decent comps will do a good job and they’ll find like minded peers. Low performing school which yours doesn’t appear to be, may be a whole other discussion

OP I'm assuming this is CGS?

I really don't think you have anything to be worried about. As you know, their GCSE results are really good, especially when you factor in the fact that the grammars and selective independent schools cream off many very academic girls. But they also have excellent Progress 8 results putting them in the top 14% of schools.

As PP have said, the fact that you are interested and care is the biggest single factor in this but also the fact that she is happy there is really important.

I do not think this has anything to do with me but I was probably at the top end of average. I went to an independent school, went to Uni. I have a postgrad degree and a PhD.

It might be why you're worrying though. What I would say is that students with high SATS and CATS scores have high targets & do end up quite stressed all through as they're rarely on target.

I imagine with your support she will be fine. Is DH academic?

It sounds like a good comprehensive from what others have posted. Try not to worry.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate you taking the time and giving me very invaluable advice.

My son's at the (very good) local comp and his targets are 7's based on Sats/Cats. He's GCSE year now and predicted all 8's and 9's. I'd keep her at the school and just keep encouraging her, she needs to put the work in if she wants good grades the teachers can only do so much.

@daysem
I would not read too much into anything they predict in y7. Has your DD done MFL before? What about drama? Or geography? Has she been taught art or technical subjects? The depth she will now go into at secondary school will open her eyes to these subjects. I remember when DD1 got brilliant teaching she came on by leaps and bounds in all subjects. She discovered she was very good at MFL. Who knew this in y6? She only started MFL in y7 so how did anyone know what she could do? Ditto with Drama. She had not done much science so how could they really know what she could achieve? As it turned out: a lot!!

I think a very good school will enthuse pupils and ensure they make very good progress. Far more is possible than a few y7 tests might suggest. She will be fine.,

Target grades are not really a target, they are a minimum expectation. There is a strong incentive for schools to try and ensure children exceed their target grades and every incentive to ensure they don’t drop below them. There will therefore be active encouragement to exceed the target, and negative pressure to avoid dropping below it. Active encouragement is a far more pleasant experience.

@daysem hard work does not always beat intelligence. I say that as a secondary school teacher with 27 years of experience.

OP, just be careful that you are not fretting that state just isn’t ‘good enough’ based on your own private education.

Be positive, calm, confident and have trust in your child. Obviously if something actually goes awry then intervene. And after all, you have the financial security to intervene should you wish.

You do seem to have been fretting. I wonder what prompted you to put your Dd in for the (stress of) grammar exams if she is not naturally very high performing? As I think the only grammars open to you where you live are the highly competitive super selectives which take maybe the top 5% of ability?

I think this is what has prompted PPs to talk about you passing in anxiety to your child.

Thanks for all your lovely comments and helpful insights.