Appeals help

[RaspberryStar88]

Hi newbie here, we’ve had our offer and son has been offered 3rd choice. Not a great school at all. We’re going to appeal 2nd choice, on the grounds of mental health. Son has high functioning anxiety which primary school are very aware of (and will hopefully provide some supporting letters) although son isn’t diagnosed. School we want has great SEND. Outdoor curriculum and lots of great sporting opportunities for son which would really benefit him. Offered school has none of this and awful reputation for bullying and SEN children failed miserably. Can anyone give me advice of what to do/not to do for a successful appeal. Sat here in tears, we’re in Birmingham too which has a very low success rate…

My advice as someone who did this and won (but 6 years ago) is know the appeals process inside out. It was an academy but they used the council for the appeals process. The woman from the council broke the rules and tried to our us at a disadvantage.

A few weeks before, we received everything they had for the appeal and there was an email in there, that showed the woman breaking guidlines. So I went back and added a complaint about the email. This was the first point the panel wanted to discuss and to be honest you could tell they were appalled at the councils behaviour.

The hearing wasn't easy as the woman told me I was a bad mother for not convincing my dd to go to the school offered. She was awful. I suspect trying to rattle us so we presented poorly.

The school offered was over an hour on public transport and I couldn't drive her and get ds to primary school on time.

We were the first people to win an appeal in 3 years. Ours was based on dds mental health backed up by the Senco at the school. But knowing the rules really helped us.

@Associatepeggy thanks for the reply! I’m
Absolutely devastated, I don’t even know where to start, or if we have a strong case at all.

I feel for you, OP. DD didn't get our choice of school initially and I was gutted. We didn't have to go through the appeals process in the end though, as we were given a place off the waiting list before it got to that stage. I really hope it works out for you in one way or another.

[quote RaspberryStar88]@Associatepeggy thanks for the reply! I’m
Absolutely devastated, I don’t even know where to start, or if we have a strong case at all.[/quote]
I remember feeling the same. I am sat waiting for ds email to tell us. Absolutely bricking it

This link should help start out. Forgot to say, until pp posted, make are you are on the waiting list too.

www.gov.uk/schools-admissions/appealing-a-schools-decision

Also, before the appeals were heard there was a group session. All the parents and the council rep. I can't remember if the panel was there.

I brought up that they stated we were one distance from the school and we were actually a different one. They wouldn't tell us where they measure from and the council rep said if we disputed their data the hearings would be cancelled to investigate and heard later. Obviously, non of us wanted that.

She really didn't mind threatening or go after people to win. You need to be prepared for that. She even claimed dd could go as we lived in an area where we were classed as the same city the school was in but paid council tax to the next city. We were on the boarder of the cities. The panel told her that wasnt correct.

@AlexaShutUp thank you! Let’s hope this happens with us 🤞🏻

@Associatepeggy As I’m aware we automatically go into waiting lists for school one and two but I will double check that. The whole appeal process sounds terrifying tbh I’m not the best u set pressure and don’t wanna mess it up for him

(1) don't panic. This is only the first allocation round. More places will be made available as some kids will need to move house due to parents work, others will have a backup place assigned at state schools but are actually going to private schools and will be declining their places. There will be plenty of shuffling between now and September.

(2) accept the place at the offered school. Doing so does not affect your appeal but even if your child never attends, you need to have a place somewhere unless you are going to home educate or go private. Accepting the place doesn't imply you are willing for your child to go there, just that you are wanting the state to provide for your child's education rather than sorting things independently.

(3) make sure that you are on every waiting list for every acceptable school. You aren't limited to just the schools on your original list. Any school that would be an improvement on the offered school. Find out where you are on each waiting list for each once things have settled down.

(4) make sure that your appeal is specifically about the way that the school you are appealing for is so appropriate for your specific child's needs that the additional burden of an extra pupil on the school is far outweighed. Don't criticise the offered school's overall quality - the appeals panel has to consider it adequate if it hasn't been closed by ofsted and your child is no more important than the hundreds of kids who end up going there. It is fine to say that the offered school is less able to meet your child's specific and individual needs than the school you are appealing for but that statement needs to be backed up with facts not just anecdotes or gut feelings.

This will be a prejudice appeal, so you only have to show that your child's need for the place outweighs the difficulties that accommodating an extra child will cause the school.

Firstly, have you checked that it makes sense that your DS didn't get a place? What does the decision letter say? What oversubscription criteria did you think you were applying under (i.e. sibling at school, distance from school, etc.) and what does the letter say? If you think that it's right that you didn't get a place, then you need to appeal on the grounds that your DS needs a place. If you really expected to get in and it doesn't seem right that he didn't (e.g. you live very close to the school) then check that out first.

The second thing to do is to find out where he is on the waiting list. School places can move drastically.

Third thing is to consider if there are any other schools that might meet his needs with places as a back up plan, while your appeal processes.

In terms of your appeal, compare both schools in every way, then make a list of all the positives of the school you want. Even things like extra curricular clubs they run, or languages they offer, etc.

Remember you're looking at why your preferred school should take your DS, not why you don't want the offered school, although you can say x offers this but y doesn't.

Don't talk about transport, etc. unless you can support a genuine need to be closer to home.

This is very helpful, thank you

@BuanoKubiamVej thank you for the reply, can I apply to schools directly then to be added to their waiting lists? I thought I was limited to my 6 choices. I will take all your advice on board thanks

@Lougle thanks for the reply, we live on the edge of the catchment area, but tbh that’s the case with most of the schools by us, apart from the one we’ve been offered which has a massive catchment area as it’s undersubscribed..
so the reasons I have given like the mental health etc will that be enough for an appeal if I have supporting evidence from school and fingers crossed gp?

@Lougle also to add, the criteria was distance, we don’t have sibling or anything.

It will help if you have evidence from a health professional, especially if they say that in their opinion the school is the only one which can meet your child's needs.

"So the reasons I have given like the mental health etc will that be enough for an appeal if I have supporting evidence from school and fingers crossed gp?"

It depends on lots of things. If there are many appellants, even if the panel decides that the school can admit some extra children, they will have to decide how many, and then decide between the appeals they have heard to decide which are the strongest cases.

Mental health is difficult because it's subjective. Lots of parents think their child 'should' go to a good/better school. No Local Authority can acknowledge that any school they offer is 'bad'. All schools should be able to meet the needs of any child allocated to them.

Lots of parents will supply 'medical evidence' but it will largely be of the type that says "Mum tells me X suffers with anxiety and would do best at Y school. X may prefer to attend Y school." This won't hold very much weight with an appeal panel because it's saying that the health professional has been told information by the parent and has documented it, but they haven't made their own assessment about the situation.

What counts as much stronger evidence is when a health professional says "X needs a, b, c provision. I believe that Y school is the only school that could meet his needs because d, e, f." That shows that the professional has assessed the situation themselves.

Just remember that prejudice cases are like a balancing scale - the LA's argument on one side and the appellant's on the other. You can add any bits to your side in addition to the mental health. So do add the outdoor space, extra curricular, anything you can find out about nurture groups, etc.

I just answered on the national offer day thread.

I echo everything Lougle has said. You need to highlight everything that makes this school the best one for your son, but you will greatly improve your chances if you obtain a diagnosis and supporting evidence from a health care professional.

I am concerned by some of the comments about the LA and even the appeal panel. OK there will always be the exception but I sit on appeal panels for 4 different LAs and have only come across a handful of cases where the LA are as obnoxious as they have been made out to be. There are always going to put forward their best case to not admit but they are also realistic that those with really good cases will be admitted. The priority for the parents has to be to make the strongest possible case for admission and rely on the common sense of the appeal panel to know when the right answer is to admit.

I also found the LA to be very fair, @admission. They went to great pains to help parents when it was obvious their appeal had no chance, trying to explain what their options were (outside of the appeal hearing).

The reality is that many people who go to appeal will still be disappointed at the end of it.

My experience of the LEAs has been mostly excellent. The admissions team in my home LEA often offer to help parents (outside the appeal) to find options for their child, if the offered school clearly isn’t going to work for them but there’s no basis for allowing the appeal. The admissions team in the LEA where I once helped out seemed much less disposed to help, but maybe I saw them on an off day.

People sometimes lose sight of the fact that the admissions team has to work within the codes and with the oversubscription criteria they’ve been given and can’t bend the rules because the parent really, really wants the place or has rung them daily for a month.

Hi, has you child seen a specialist for their anxiety or are they under camhs for anxiety disorder. I think you will struggle if its only on what their school believe as the last 2 years have been hard for all of the children and their will be many with anxiety and other issues. Thats not to say don't appeal but also look at what good points this school you've got does have. Whatever you do don't tell your child their not going their as you don't know what outcome your appeal will have

Why are you not appealing for your first choice as well. The appeal panel may ask you that so you will need to prepare a logical answer to that which fits in with your mental health grounds. Having been through an appeal myself (and won!) I wish you all the best.

Thank you all, I’ve decided I will appeal both 1st and 2nd school both on the grounds their SEN program is much more suited to my sons needs. The primary school he’s at currently are well aware of his anxiety and it’s been since reception not just the past two years. I’ve spoken to his class teacher today and she’s going to write a letter to support me, just need to speak to the other teachers and GP. If I ask senco to get educational psychologist to assess him how long will that take? Because if I can get a supporting letter from them surely that will help?

Just to add a bit of balance, the rep from the LA wished us well after our appeal hearing was over when we saw them outside and said we had a really good case. The panel did decide in our favour. So they aren't all awful :)

Schools only get limited access to an Ed Psych so you could struggle to get anything in time.

Yes, push on with a diagnosis, whether that’s through the school or your GP. A letter from the primary school saying your child is anxious will carry very little weight. I apologise if this sounds brutal, but the appeal panel is likely to hear from many parents who say that their child is anxious about starting secondary school and wants to stay with friends. The panel is likely then to take the view that all secondary schools know how to settle new pupils and therefore refuse the appeal. You need to show that there is more going on here and your child’s level of anxiety is such that it counts as a medical need to be at this school and stay with his friends. For that you need evidence from a health care professional, not the primary school.

I work in Birmingham schools, which part of the city are you in? If you’re on the edge of the city it might be worth looking at whether there are spaces in the adjoining counties for schools you might prefer. Birmingham is ridiculously stretched for school places unfortunately and you’re right the bar is high for appeals, but the waiting lists can move hugely between now and September.