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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

2: SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2022

203 replies

Emo76 · 22/02/2022 18:43

Continued

OP posts:
eglantine7 · 29/03/2022 23:49

www.isc.co.uk/media-enquiries/isc-blogs/the-possible-horrors-of-11plus/

Jane Lunnon, previous head of Wimbledon High, currently Alleyns, praised Finton House ( a school I know well and which is not highly sought after like many others who boast their exit results) for their approach.

The elephant in the room is the tutoring in prep schools. This isn't discouraged at all by Heads and staff at some prep schools who only seem interested in showing off very skewed results of the 11 plus which they take credit for. Of course applying to many many schools means a handful of children get many many offers which than give the impression that all children do exceptionally well. It's a scam! And moreover incredibly damaging for those children with good natural ability but who haven't got parents who are willing to do that out of principle. And the school does nothing to build up that child and only panders to the parents who go to these lengths
I do think some West London preps are the worst for this and I just do hope it stops and the only people who can do thatvis the people who run these preps.
As a parent I would make sure the school you are paying fees for ensures they do not rely on tutors to do the work for them. Ask them how they handle a class and how it is taught if a good percentage are being tutored and make sure your child does not get left behind or suffers as a result! With hindsight I would have done this. Unfortunately I found out about the extent of it after the event.

LondonMum20222 · 30/03/2022 11:53

@TheWindsorKnot Do you have a child in a prep school? I only ask because what you're saying doesn't reflect my experience - or that of other prep school parents I know - at all. I'm sorry if you've had a bad experience.

Prep schools don't want children applying for schools they're unlikely to get offered a place at - yes, it reflects badly on the school if dozens of children are applying to schools they haven't got a hope of getting in to. But that's also about saving a child from unnecessary exams. By the same token, a school wouldn't suggest a child apply to multiple back-up schools, if they're very bright and are likely to get their target or aspirational schools. As I say, 4 is generally the agreed sensible number. It's absolutely the case that the prep schools I know discourage girls from applying to more than four schools. I'm sorry if you've had a different experience - it's certainly not in the best interests of a child to be applying to so many.

LondonMum20222 · 30/03/2022 11:58

@eglantine7 Unfortunately, prep school heads can say until they're blue in the face that parents don't need to tutor but some parents will always do it anyway. I personally think it's madness to pay prep school fees and then employ a separate tutor for 11+ (given the whole point of a prep school is to "prep" your child for the next school) but some parents will inevitably feel the need to go further (and you only need a couple to start and the arms race begins...) There's very little Heads can do about that.

Zorah · 30/03/2022 13:59

We came from outside the British school system, so not prep or state school. Not even a British school overseas, which meant we were totally on our own without teacher/parent/friend support. Thus our experience is different than most people here.
What I have learnt as an outsider:

Practice:
The children do need to be familiar with the test content beyond the samples on the ISEB-Pre test/CEM websites. Atom was a recommendation we got on here. If they're not doing

Timeline:
We started much later than it seems like many people did. I felt I was being too much thinking about it last year, but in retrospect I wonder if that would have made the process less stressful. It looks like people start thinking about it in year 5 with some prep starting then. We started our daughter on Atom in October and then did a pre-test plus practice run for the CEM. It was, in fact, absolutely fine. Our child didn't miss play dates or parties, though I'm not sure if those rumours are true. We did opt not to go on holiday over the winter holidays as she had 3 exams in early January for which we wanted/needed to travel back to London (after traveling there for the CEM and ISEB pre-test). Point being: familiarisation is key, though I do also think test taking tips are useful whether learned in school or from a tutor or online (as in our case).

Content:
'Creative writing' papers are not what I would call 'creative' but rather 'descriptive' and we read online that schools are looking for specific devices like synonyms, antonyms, etc etc in specific amounts (something like MOUSETRAPS53 though I can't remember what that stands for or even if it's the right word!). In other words, the writing is less about the story and the child's imagination and more about the child having learned descriptive devices, many of which are being tested in the Verbal ISEB Pre-test/CEM and/or Comprehension papers.

Advocacy:
-Our daughter went to one of the London Consortium schools to do the ISEB pre-test. Her computer was broken. That particular school waited 6 weeks to schedule her re-sit. We turned it down as she'd already got through to second round in the schools outside Consortium and interviews at a few ISEB schools (two that don't interview all candidates). HOWEVER, in back and forth with the test site and the one school that didn't choose to interview her given her scores, I learned that parent advocacy is vital and can make changes. As a foreigner, I didn't want to intervene and trusted the system. Don't make my mistake. Advocate for your children, especially if you don't have a prep school head who would advocate on your behalf as they know both your child and the admissions teams/heads of the schools. Advocate early and often - apparently they take it as not being committed to the school if you don't.

  • Lucy Elphinstone at FHSS is head of London Consortium. If you have any problems, go straight to her. We didn't apply to FHSS but I've heard amazing things about her. She is now dealing with what happened to my daughter, and is aware we turned down London Consortium school offers because we were so troubled by the problem (and were lucky enough to be able to choose). Go to her should you have any issues.
  • London Prep school children take the ISEB pre-test in their own schools over a couple days. Non prep school children go to the test site and take it in one sitting (with breaks). This really troubles me as it seems the children best prepped get the best test taking situation - I assume this will generate controversy on this site but as a standardized test developer, this is lack of test standardization is quite indefensible. If your child isn't taking the ISEB pre-test at their own school spread over a couple days, store this information in your back pocket.

Perspective:
Keep in mind always that the difference between the schools most people here talk about is quite small. They are all good schools and if parents are clued in and engaged enough to be having these discussions, their children are going to do just fine.

Fit:
-Know your child. Would they be inspired if they're no longer the best, or would they start doubting their intelligence, or, even, would they push themselves too hard? Do they need sports and outside space? What are the sixth formers like, and do you see your child both fitting in now and going down the school's trajectory? What are the other parents like? etc etc

  • If you can, visit the schools and after results are in, ask your child his/her preferences. We visited all schools when we came in to take the SPGS, City and LUS written tests. The schools were all really accommodating with interview and tour arrangements given our schedule. It turned out our daughter had pretty strong feelings about where she felt most comfortable (which luckily aligned with our preference for her - phew!).

Summary:
Try not to get too caught up in the stress. It is stressful but there's more within our control than I realised. Familiarise, advocate if/when necessary, know your child, remember all the schools are good, and, finally, that if you care this much, your child will do really well wherever she goes because you're an engaged parent who values her education.

SpringCalling · 30/03/2022 20:23

I was always against tutoring, thinking that if dd, coming from a good prep school, can't get into somewhere without tutoring then it was not the school for her. Then came COVID which put all the prep out of whack, and DD hated home schooling. We focussed on her mental health until Year 5 ended, but then got a tutor once a week from the end of summer term up until and during the 11 plus. The tutor was great and I'm sure helped her get into our favourite school which she starts in September. NO tutor now, just endless trips and plays!

eglantine7 · 31/03/2022 16:24

I have a friend whose child was at our old state primary. He just did some Atom learning in the autumn year 6 term and got into his chosen school and they only applied to 2.
The moral of the story is keep your child's mental health in tact during this scrutinous process.
The prep schools really need to get a handle on this. And the parents too, I mean they are responsible for the frenzy and to those who worry about their child being bored etc it's silly. Boredom breeds imagination at this age. You can see the top independent schools take a high proportion of state school children. Ask yourselves why.

eglantine7 · 31/03/2022 16:25

But if you're at a prep be aware that even those who moan about tutoring end up getting them. I don't really know what can be done except be very discerning about the prep school you choose!

HighRopes · 01/04/2022 10:47

While I agree that endless, dull SATs practice is less stressful than an 11+ arms race, it’s still not an ideal way to spend your final year of primary school. My Y6 dd is has done three or four mock SATs weeks already, much of which is spent staring out of the window as she can’t finish early or go and get a book, even though she has finished the paper. Between times, the school are trying to put in some more interesting learning, but I know from my older dd that after SATs it’s just PE and a play. Which is great if your dc likes PE and drama, but not so good if they actually enjoy academic work. And which means they effectively have a three and a half month break between SATs week and the end of schoolwork, and starting secondary. I’d like more of a balance throughout the year.

Glaciferous · 02/04/2022 00:25

I have a friend whose child was at our old state primary. He just did some Atom learning in the autumn year 6 term and got into his chosen school and they only applied to 2.

We just did an hour a week tutoring (aimed at practicing taking exams rather than academic content) for about 6 months in total so sounds v similar. We just applied to two schools we really liked and DD was offered both. I told DD it was hard and she might very well not get a place and she was fine with that and it was fairly low stress most of the time.

My Y6 dd is has done three or four mock SATs weeks already, much of which is spent staring out of the window as she can’t finish early or go and get a book, even though she has finished the paper.

Horribly familiar @HighRopes
One interesting thing that DD's fabulous and somewhat off-piste year 4 teacher told me when I felt miserable about year 6 was that she said we could ask for whatever we wanted within reason as they would not want to lose a child performing at the higher levels (greater depth? because of the stupid numbers etc of course). So you could absolutely ask for your daughter to be allowed to read a book if she's finished her test and you'd have a good chance of getting a positive result.

I know that SATs are stressful for many students, but I do not know why. Primary schools pressure kids to do well in the SATs, when in reality, the tests have no bearing on anything (secondary school choices/outcomes) except that it is a reflection of the teaching in the primary school (and of course DC's attainment at Y6).

Your second sentence answers the first. For primary schools, the SATs are massively important so of course they try to make children do their best on them, often to the detriment of actual learning time. If you think any primary school right now is just coasting along not worrying about SATs results at all, you are very much wrong!

FunkyT · 26/04/2022 17:26

Hello again!
Disappointed to read about bulge year in Surbiton. I guess we knew it was coming but it does make an impact on the girls and getting chosen for teams and plays etc.
Feeling 😔

HighRopes · 26/04/2022 20:30

FunkyT · 26/04/2022 17:26

Hello again!
Disappointed to read about bulge year in Surbiton. I guess we knew it was coming but it does make an impact on the girls and getting chosen for teams and plays etc.
Feeling 😔

They must have over offered - is it one extra class?

Benny12 · 26/04/2022 21:02

hi ladies ...yes read the surbiton email tonight ...its 9 classes so thats 216 girls ..nearly as big as DD's entire prep ...quite annoyed ..would have made a different decision had they mentioned this back in feb Angry

1forward2back · 26/04/2022 21:30

i posted about this before as I’d heard it on the grapevine it was going to massive year. I think that’s enormous! Nine forms is bigger than most state schools and the site is cramped as it is. I would definitely be looking elsewhere if there were other options at this stage - it’s just a deposit. Also 216 in nine forms means 24 in a class. @FunkyT i did try to warn you! It’s not just sports and plays, it’s appointments at parents events, communication with the staff etc.

SW17cleocat · 26/04/2022 21:42

Wow! This is shocking. Did they over offer or is there a financial issue? That is a huge entry - I don’t know of any London day schools taking that many in. Could this have anything to do with GDST recent teacher issues I wonder? As a caveat - DD not going to Surbiton but have friends there and have been following this thread.

Flyingbytheseatofmypullups · 26/04/2022 22:02

We would’ve also made a different decision had we known this. I have written to ask how the extra forms are being accommodated on the site. I am seriously unhappy about this and concerned for DD.

Ststreet · 26/04/2022 22:13

What is it usually?

Ststreet · 26/04/2022 22:13

Does letter address why this is happening?

Benny12 · 26/04/2022 22:19

its normally a 6 form intake but they said it would be going to a 7 form this year ...I spoke to admissions in feb and she stated 7 not 9 ...have been completely mis lead by them ...

FunkyT · 26/04/2022 22:43

I am so disappointed and i don't know what to do next.
We have turned everything else down so spaces will have gone.

pipedream · 26/04/2022 22:50

Gosh just catching up! Have Surbiton explained how this happened? @FunkyT if you feel the size will impact your DD, 7 years is a long time for her. Some of the schools you have declined might have spaces still or if not you would ask to go on a waitlist maybe in case any come up...

I'm looking for next year so I'm not affected this year, so sorry for you all about this.

firefly123 · 26/04/2022 23:03

Definitely contact the schools you have declined to see if spaces available. There is still movement. I would not be happy with 9 forms. So sorry, must be very stressful.

1forward2back · 27/04/2022 06:35

@FunkyT i think you were at an all through school - can’t you just now ask to stay? They will have contractual obligation to allow it I think. For everyone else, I reckon you’d have grounds to get deposit back and look elsewhere.

travelturtle · 27/04/2022 07:26

@FunkyT sorry to hear this. Agree with the other posters it might be worth contacting the schools you declined if you’d rather now go there. Otherwise I’d definitely be looking for some reassurance from Surbiton that they have a plan in place to make sure this won’t impact the kids eg enough space for all the lessons in the original timetable, extra clubs etc. If they’d planned for 7 form intake and have accepted 9 forms they must have a contingency plan here …. Good luck

Ststreet · 27/04/2022 08:29

I’m still wondering if/how Surbiton explained this? Impacts all the years.

hockeygrass · 27/04/2022 08:48

@Ststreet , I agree with the impact on the whole school site, even the coach routes become busier as well as the number of pupils in the corridors etc.
If I was a prospective year 7 parent I would ask the school about the possibility of overcrowding in the dining room, the logistics of getting the dd to HW for PE on Fridays and the facilities such as labs and computers for IT. I would also order your uniform early, don't leave it until mid August!

As a future parent looking a schools and considering scholarships I would also add accept a scholarship for the monetary benefit but never because you think it will help your dd stand out, with a cohort of 200plus the number of scholars will be considerable. I say this as a parent who found there were 7 academic scholars in my dd's class of 23 with many of the other categories covered too by other members of the class.