Secondary school place :KENT vs BUCKS

[Doctormum2021]

Hello everyone,
I am plannning to move to SE of England , looking at Kent vs Bucks area. I am looking for a town/city with excellent grammar schools as I have children who will be preparing for 11+. I also want a posh , friendly nice area. Which places would you suggest please ? We currently live in York.
I look forward to helpful responses.
Thank you

Tunbridge Wells would definitely tick a lot of your boxes both for schools and quality of life. Looking at your username, TWells also has its fair share of doctors (being so close to te hospital at Pembury). Primary schools worth looking at would be Claremont, St Peter', St James' (all state) or Mead, Rose Hill, Holmewood House if looking at independent.

@Panicmode1, I can’t disagree with your lived experience but mine is contrary. The kids who weren’t coached from DD2s class (3 of them) all failed. Others I know of who went in un coached also failed.

I think the issue is that it’s just a very different kind of test.SATS are curriculum based, DC are trained for that. The 11+ questions for a child who hasn’t had practice on answering them are going to completely throw them.

My DH is a socialist and did not let DD2 take the 11+. Instead we placed her at a well performing Secondary (she got a music place which I appreciate as she had years of music lessons was to some extent buying our way in too!). However in Year 9 she has become increasingly unhappy to the point we’re looking at moving her. She wants to join friends at a Selective grammar so will be doing a CATS test in the coming weeks.

My DH and I did a practice timed sample CATs Year 9 test last week. Out of 10, I got three right and DH five. I’ve a 2:1 in History and DH a First in English. Either we wouldn’t be up to the education level of a 13 year old at a Grammar .. or these tests aren’t simplistic!

CATS are a different ballgame @Whohashiddenthebiscuits - DS1 didn't do very well in his Y7 ones, so had very low predicted grades - which he consistently smashed. So he made their stats look quite good. I'm not really sure how accurate they are as an indicator of intelligence really - in my experience with my children, not very!

@Panicmode1 🙂, DH & I aren’t geniuses, averagely bright grads I guess but getting 3 out of 10 on a test for a 13 year old did bring home how rusty & not up to scratch my brain must be!

@Silverswirl

I live in Kent. Moderately posh area. I have 3 kids- one in grammar and the other two still in primary. My advice is this: are your children high achieving academically? Be brutally honest- are they in the top 10% of the class? You do need this information to make an informed decision. As a teacher, it’s fairly easy to see from around year 2 who will stand a good chance of passing the 11+ If your children are not honestly in the top group of the class academically, then I really wouldn’t go for a grammar area and instead would look at Sussex or Surrey. In Kent, brighter kids gets creamed off to grammar. The rest (75%) get put in a state. It’s not a proper comprehensive as they have in Sussex or Surrey. They are schools which mostly have very low amounts of pupils achieving grades A-C (in old grades!) at gcse- far below the national average. Take a look at school comparisons on the gov website for non grammar schools. You really can’t bank on your child passing unless you know for sure they really are head and shoulders above their peers. If they are high achieving, then As other posters have said - Tunbridge Wells, Sevenoaks (and surrounding villages) are the poshest areas. Tonbridge grammars are great. There are also 4 very good grammars in maidstone and although not as posh as TUnbridge Wells, there are some pretty villages which have good bus links. If you are looking for posh, for the love of god stay well well away from the whole of Medway.

There are quite a lot of inaccuracies here. That the 75% get "put in a state" stands out - grammars are state as well!

And you really don't need to be in the top 10%. It's the top 25%. My DD scraped in on the 11+ and now in Y11 is on track for 7s and 8s in GCSEs so don't let people say grammars are only for the blisteringly clever outliers. My DD isn't stressed, isn't anxious. Sure she has to pedal to keep up but she wants to as the local grammar was her favourite choice when we looked round the schools. Local grammars aren't hothouses in Kent. Some of the superselective ones are - but again not all of them. My DS's school turns out very well adjusted young men and focuses on the whole person not just the exam results. Pick your schools carefully.

I think perhaps Newbury might fit what you want better than Kent or Buckinghamshire. It has excellent state schools - St Barts has a very good rep and is a comprehensive. But you could also tutor for super selectives in Reading (although aim for St Barts catchment and save yourself a fortune in train fairs as the difference probably wouldn’t be worth it!) There are lots of private schools around as well.

What did you decide OP? Bucks is reputed for it's grammar schools and is regarded as posh. Kent has some posh bits and good grammar schools. However, Kent is much cheaper than Buck for several reasons.

@Delectable, rather a large generalisation? Milton Keynes for example is decidedly not posh! Putting 3 bedrooms, £350K & Buckinghamshire into Rightmove pulls up rather a lot of houses as well!

@BendingSpoons

How old are your children? I think some of the Bucks grammars require you to have lived in the area for a while before.

Nope, not true. The bucks grammar school catchment is huge.

Nope, not true. The bucks grammar school catchment is huge

This is really not true! What are you basing this on? The catchment areas are quite small and then not all catchment is offered at some schools. My children are at / have been at SWBGS in Marlow and the current year 13 is the last year that all of catchment were offered - since then they have only offered to a really small area v close to the school.

Re OP - you want a posh area - how do you define posh?

Resident of Bucks here. The schools in Aylesbury are not in a great area to live, you would need to move to one of the villages surrounding it. However, as the majority of students who attend the grammar schools here are not local, it’s not like this will affect friendships etc as everyone is in the same boat.

The grammar schools in Amersham and Little Chalfont are in much better areas to live, however, you are going to be looking at over a million for a relatively average. I worked there briefly and it wasn’t great to be talked down to by little princesses in the sixth form, but overall the girls were mostly quite sweet albeit entitled. The social mix is much better in the Aylesbury schools.

Beaconsfield High School is brilliant, if I had a girl I’d want her to go here. The area is nice as well.

You need to spend a day visiting schools in all areas you are interested in. You also need to factor in travel costs, as the school bus costs around £1200 a year.

*relatively average house.

@LadyLazarus40

Nope, not true. The bucks grammar school catchment is huge

This is really not true! What are you basing this on? The catchment areas are quite small and then not all catchment is offered at some schools. My children are at / have been at SWBGS in Marlow and the current year 13 is the last year that all of catchment were offered - since then they have only offered to a really small area v close to the school.

Re OP - you want a posh area - how do you define posh?

I’m basing this on the fact I work in a Bucks Gramnar school where something like 80% of students are not local. Milton Keynes is considered Bucks for educational purposes but we have students from Henry’s and Oxfordshire. Almost all students have attended private school a very small percentage come from the local area. This year the percentage of incoming Year 7s who are in ‘catchment’ is about 75% - this does not mean they are local.

Not Henry, Herts!

@Eightiesfan so I’m guessing you work at SHF, RLS or CGS?

This won’t be that the catchment is huge but that they are admitting out of catchment (different things).

Anyway the allocations are here www.buckscc.gov.uk/media/4518033/allocation-profile-2022-v1.xlsx

I would define catchment as local - how would you?

Having had children in SWBGS for the last 8 years I can honestly say that the children are local (within a couple of miles of the school - we live in a village and this is our closest school but we are a couple of miles away). Also the vast majority are from the marlow primary schools so your experience bears no relation to mine!

Chosen at random this is the catchment map for RLS - what’s not local about this catchment area? Genuinely confused!

drive.google.com/file/d/1LrwpOwlJX7PNOAdNE6uv8nFqope_TVWA/view

Just to give you an example I consider local to be anywhere in the Aylesbury Vale area. When almost all students come in from MK (Bucks) or Leighton Buzzard (Bedfordshire) I do not consider ‘local’. In my opinion this is because private schools tutor their students to within an inch of their lives to pass the 11+. Yes there are students who have attended ‘local’ primary schools but they are hugely outnumbered. This is not a criticism, just an observation. I just think it’s a shame that lots of able students who actually,I’ve in Bucks do not get the opportunity to attend one of the grammars, as they are being outscored, hence the pass rate is higher due to the numbers. If we kept to a strict catchment, more kids would get this opportunity.

You just have to see the numbers of non-Bucks students who come into the Aylesbury grammars to sit the 11+, there are hundreds of them who take the test, at The Floyd, AGS and AHS. Obviously not all of them will pass, but local children cannot compete with the privately educated ones who attend one of the dozens of small private schools in the MK area. All those who sit the test in the grammars are all out of catchment or MK students. MK, although in Bucks have a separate non-grammar school system, but for the purpose of attending a grammar they are considered in catchment.

@Eightiesfan You make a good point. My DD goes to AHS and most of her peers are not from Aylesbury. She is the only one (I think), from her special measures primary.

That said, she wasn"t tutored, unlike the others who went to SHFGS.

I should have added, we are in Aylesbury.

There are no grammar schools in Sevenoaks itself . Which grammar schools would be in the catchment area of sevenoaks?
Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for Boys does now have a site in Sevenoaks.

As a teacher, it’s fairly easy to see from around year 2 who will stand a good chance of passing the 11+
I think this is such a damaging statement. Children can change beyond recognition between Y2 and Y5. Both of mine passed but the eldest was discouraged from taking it by his Y5 teacher. Luckily we ignored her and he got an excellent pass and is now in Y9 and top of the class for many subjects.

My three all went to grammar in Tunbridge Wells…Skinners I cannot speak highly enough…bloody brilliant and boys are lovely,well rounded guys and a pleasure to spend time with.
My lovely daughter went to TWGGS which is a brilliant school and the headteacher was awesome . My daughter now says that she would send her child to a mixed school because an all girls school was too overwhelming and too many issues amongst the girls. …I tend to agree!

@Grammarmum - interesting - my 3 boys are all at Skinners' and I wholeheartedly agree with your endorsement of how fab it is. My daughter has not had quite such as good experience of TWGGS and I'm not such a fan of it, or the SLT (partly because of the infinitely superior pastoral and educational) experience of my boys.

look at Otford (v pretty - has its own train line into London), Shoreham (ditto .. but a slower line I think)

Shoreham & Otford are on the same line into London (Blackfriars) with a stopping service. - Thameslink.

[quote Panicmode1]@Grammarmum - interesting - my 3 boys are all at Skinners' and I wholeheartedly agree with your endorsement of how fab it is. My daughter has not had quite such as good experience of TWGGS and I'm not such a fan of it, or the SLT (partly because of the infinitely superior pastoral and educational) experience of my boys.[/quote]
I genuinely think that there was a mutual respect between the boys and the teachers.My sons literally enjoyed every single day at school and I smile every time I drive past the school…really happy memories .Parents evening at Skinners always a pleasure because of the positive atmosphere whereas TWGGS was quite scary 😩
I am not knocking the school but I think that too many girls ,all very intelligent created too many issues . Could also possibly have been my daughters year group that were the problem!