Secondary school place :KENT vs BUCKS

[Doctormum2021]

Hello everyone,
I am plannning to move to SE of England , looking at Kent vs Bucks area. I am looking for a town/city with excellent grammar schools as I have children who will be preparing for 11+. I also want a posh , friendly nice area. Which places would you suggest please ? We currently live in York.
I look forward to helpful responses.
Thank you

It’s a discriminatory policy that disadvantages renters and has been removed from the admissions criteria in several sought after schools local to me for this reason. But entirely compatible with the grammar system I suppose!

Obviously if caveats in place to accommodate this group and no requirement for two year rental contracts as was also stopped round here, no problem!

I believe it is only the Challoners schools that currently have this requirement, but others may adopt it of course. All the other schools (grammar & upper), you have to be resident by October 31st. If you are waiting for 11 plus results that gives you 2 weeks to move and dispose completely of your other property. And find a primary school for the remainder of year 6. Many people move late (often very close to the schools) & submit a change of address but still don't get in.
You can also get good advice at www.elevenplusexams.co.uk

britannia-study.com.my/top-grammar-schools-uk

You might be interested to see how Kent Grammar schools compare to Bucks Grammar schools.

The Challoner's Schools aren't super-selectives, they are catchment area schools – you have to live in fairly close proximity to the schools regardless of how highly you score in the 11+. For this reason the policy has been deemed lawful and reasonable.

For those who aren't familiar with the area, these schools are right in the town(s) and pride themselves on being local schools for local children. They could no doubt attract some exceptionally bright children from further afield but have always resisted that approach.

You could put 2 youngest in a good prep to help make sure they pass 11+ .
Message me for details of an outstanding one in Kent.

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Just my opinion (sorry to disagree @Bin85!) but rather than pay two years of prep school fees (there is no such thing as guaranteed pass results), I’d put your DC into a good local Primary and pay for an 11+ tutor with a great local reputation. I can think of only a tiny handful of children I know who didn’t pass with tuition (and in these instances, their parents weren’t hopeful anyway).

@ESGdance

britannia-study.com.my/top-grammar-schools-uk

You might be interested to see how Kent Grammar schools compare to Bucks Grammar schools.

That table is ranked on progress 8 scores only, which is unusual. It's not the measure eg The Times etc lists usually use - it doesn't list the schools by exam results for example.

@SwayingInTime It’s absolutely fine to be a renter in the catchment areas for these schools. You just need to have been renting for a longer period in the area before applying. If you own a property within 20 miles of the school then that property will be treated as your main address. It’s just designed to stop people renting short term in order to get a grammar place and then move back to their main home once a place is secured.

If you commit to the area and show this by having lived there a reasonable amount of time then there’s absolutely no issues.

What if your DC don't pass the 11+? Would you consider living in an area with excellent comprehensive schools instead?

@RampantIvy where would you suggest ?

Sorry, I live in Yorkshire so I couldn't possibly advise.

@RampantIvy The OP said she lived in York, which from what I understand does have excellent comprehensive schools.

I know, but she is moving to the south east. Given that there are a lot of posts on MN saying how brutal the grammar school system is in Kent, I thought the OP might be interested to see if there were other options in the south east, but maybe not Kent.

Yes, I agree. Sorry, I thought your last post was a dig at Yorkshire comprehensive schools and I got defensive!

I live in Kent. Moderately posh area. I have 3 kids- one in grammar and the other two still in primary.
My advice is this: are your children high achieving academically? Be brutally honest- are they in the top 10% of the class? You do need this information to make an informed decision.
As a teacher, it’s fairly easy to see from around year 2 who will stand a good chance of passing the 11+
If your children are not honestly in the top group of the class academically, then I really wouldn’t go for a grammar area and instead would look at Sussex or Surrey.
In Kent, brighter kids gets creamed off to grammar. The rest (75%) get put in a state. It’s not a proper comprehensive as they have in Sussex or Surrey. They are schools which mostly have very low amounts of pupils achieving grades A-C (in old grades!) at gcse- far below the national average.
Take a look at school comparisons on the gov website for non grammar schools.
You really can’t bank on your child passing unless you know for sure they really are head and shoulders above their peers.
If they are high achieving, then As other posters have said - Tunbridge Wells, Sevenoaks (and surrounding villages) are the poshest areas. Tonbridge grammars are great.
There are also 4 very good grammars in maidstone and although not as posh as TUnbridge Wells, there are some pretty villages which have good bus links.
If you are looking for posh, for the love of god stay well well away from the whole of Medway.

@LaMagdalena

Yes, I agree. Sorry, I thought your last post was a dig at Yorkshire comprehensive schools and I got defensive!

No, not at all

DD went to a Yorkshire comprehensive school and achieved mostly A and A* at GCSE and AAA at A level. TBH I find the grammar school system very divisive and unfair.

Silverswirl's post is an excellent example of many of the posts on MN that I have read about grammar school areas, Kent especially.

@Silverswirl yes they are academically bright

I would never assume a child will pass 11+, the majority don’t.

@canary1 I think you know early on as a parent if they are capable and will cope with the pressure- both of the test and the speed at grammar school.

There are always one or two shocks every year (have been through it 4 times here in Kent), but for the most part, the children who you expect, do pass. My eldest was told in Y2 that he was Oxbridge material by a teacher, which I totally rejected as being way too much pressure and expectation on a 6/7 yr old. He got a Cambridge offer in Jan, so maybe some teachers really can see potential that early. 🤷‍♀️

Panicmode1 there are plenty of ‘shocks’ every year. To the extent that they are not shocks. Plenty of bright kids do not pass the 11+, and then the good- average but highly tutored do.
Most kids do not pass it, and that’s worth remembering before you find yourself in an 11+ area.

@Silverswirl, agree with absolutely everything you’ve said.

And @canary1, agree also. It’s not essentially just the brightest kids passing. I personally don’t know of any kid who has been put into the test without coaching who has passed. There was at least one girl in lower sets than my DD2 at Primary who was heavily coached and is now at a Selective. What we have essentially got here in Kent (and this isn’t a dig at Grammar parents, we all do what we have to do and my DD2 got a selective (music) place) is a two tier State education system, the grammars full of middle class kids whose parents have paid either with money or time to get them in there and less satisfactory Secondaries for everyone else.

And on a final note, I’m really not sure if you can tell if your DC is Grammar material or going to be a future academic at Primary stage, certainly early Primary anyway. @Panicmode1, if I’d gone on DD1s school report in Year 2, I think I would assume she’d be serving tables right now, not doing an intensive STEM degree!

And on a final note, I’m really not sure if you can tell if your DC is Grammar material or going to be a future academic at Primary stage, certainly early Primary anyway.

Of course you can't, I quite agree. We all know children who pick things up very quickly so are ahead of their peers but don't kick on, for whatever reason. Equally there are children who do better later which could be because they mature later, or because the differing style of assessments/exams suit them, or because they flourish when they can study only those subject(s) which really appeal to them, or because they are very strong in a particular subject(s) but much weaker in others etc etc etc.

That's anecdotal, but there is also plenty of pedagogical research that indicates educational achievement is not linear.

@whohashiddenthebiscuits I think my eldest is a bit of an outlier. He wasn't coached for a local prep scholarship exam and was awarded their top offer which we turned down due to the pressure. He turned out alright via state primary. I did know all of my others were capable of passing quite early on. And there are children who are not coached...I know several who got into superselectives without it. I also know children who passed very well but chose not to go to grammar school. Not all Kent parents are terrifying 11+ obsessives 😉