Is it worth raising this, or is it just part of being at secondary school?

[siegriedswaistcoat]

My eldest son is in year 8 at a large academy. Whenever it rains he comes home with most of his packed lunch uneaten. He says that people with a packed lunch have to eat outside everyday. If it is raining or has recently rained there is nowhere dry to sit.

I have suggested that he politely tell someone at school about this. I think that the staff may not realize that this is a problem and a solution could easily be found. I am guessing that the lunch staff and cleaners do not want to be cleaning up after the packed lunch pupils as well as cleaning up the canteen. I wondered if they could eat in an empty home economics class room where there will be cloths and a dust pan and brush to clean up after themselves.

I know I am being very PFB but I think that a dry place to sit and eat is a fairly basic requirement. My son has some SN and is reluctant to speak to anyone.

I would raise it, that's shit.

My son spent 7 years at Holland Park only able to eat twice a week, when he could get into the too-small dining room in the half-hour allotted for lunch. I raised it again and again with the school, and the only success I had was helping to reverse the decision to cut the lunchtime even further to 25 minutes. I used to stuff his bag with powerbars, but he's very rule-oriented and would not eat them anywhere he wasn't allowed to.

He ended up with an eating disorder. (We also all now know, of course, that this one one of.many, many things wrong with HP.)

Raise it now, and keep raising it. If there isn't room in the dining hall, then they need to allocate somewhere else.

I think it w would be reasonable for you to raise it with school. When one of my kids says school is doing something that sounds daft, I email the office. You can use an anonymous email address if you don't want to involve your son. I'd say, eg:
"Hi - hope you can help to clear something up for me as I expect there has been a misunderstanding. My son says that pupils with packed lunches aren't allowed to eat inside and that if it's raining or has recently rained, there's nowhere dry to sit. This sounds unlikely to me as I'm sure the school will be providing a decent place to eat, but I'd be grateful if you could let me know what the arrangements are. "

Often it turns out that either a) there was another option eg a room available that kids weren't using as eg "NOBODY eats in there, it's for nerds", or b) school has a face-saving opportunity to make alternative arrangements before this is flagged up to the PTA or whatever.

Do many students bring a packed lunch?

We have a similar rule. My children will only eat something that can be put into a blazer pocket.

Yes I think it is reasonable for you to raise it. We are going into winter. They can't be expecting DC to sit outside when it is freezing and raining and eat lunch. As others have said, hopefully he has just misunderstood. My DC often comes home with all his lunch because he has been too busy chatting to eat it, but they should at least have the opportunity to eat in the warm and dry.

We have a similar rule, it is due to lack of space and more teachers required to supervise if kids are inside, also Covid. I have given up on the packed lunch battle and just give an allowance each week for canteen topped up with cereal bars, snacks etc. It's less stressful all round.

I am guessing that the lunch staff and cleaners do not want to be cleaning up after the packed lunch pupils as well as cleaning up the canteen.

More likely that there isn't enough space to have all pupils indoors and eating over the course of a short lunch time.

Most packed lunch pupils eat standing up at my school anyway, but I would expect some sort of 'wet lunch' arrangement for when it's pouring with rain.

You are not being PFB.

YABVVU if your son comes to tell you that he’s only allowed to eat outside in the rain,and instead of raising it with the school you ask the internet what to do. Why are you not in the Headteacher’s office demanding to know why child neglect is taking place in their school? I would be. If you get nowhere with head then you escalate to the governors, ofsted and even local newspapers etc. Or you change school.
I’m amazed what parents in the UK put up with from schools.

Things only change because somekne makes them change.

It all comes back to dire lack of funding. More indoor space for lunchtimes costs money in cleaners and lunchtime supervisors. Schools can't afford it.

Maybe you could get together with the PTA to fundraiser for outside shelter.

@DivorcedAndDelighted

I think it w would be reasonable for you to raise it with school. When one of my kids says school is doing something that sounds daft, I email the office. You can use an anonymous email address if you don't want to involve your son. I'd say, eg: "Hi - hope you can help to clear something up for me as I expect there has been a misunderstanding. My son says that pupils with packed lunches aren't allowed to eat inside and that if it's raining or has recently rained, there's nowhere dry to sit. This sounds unlikely to me as I'm sure the school will be providing a decent place to eat, but I'd be grateful if you could let me know what the arrangements are. "

Often it turns out that either a) there was another option eg a room available that kids weren't using as eg "NOBODY eats in there, it's for nerds", or b) school has a face-saving opportunity to make alternative arrangements before this is flagged up to the PTA or whatever.

This is a good plan. Starts off with you being the reasonable one. If they don't offer a place to eat inside, then you can escalate.

This is not acceptable. Cattle eat inside. 30 minutes is just ridiculous m. This is nothing to do with money! My old school had different arrival times for different year groups. It didn’t matter what they are! You need longer to accommodate more children. It’s that simple.

School leadership should never condone eating outside as routine, eating snacks and rushing meals. This is poor and doesn’t reflect the need for healthy eating and conversation over a meal. So yes. Complain. Your DC deserves better.

Thank you very much everyone who has taken the time to reply. You gave me the confidence to act and I have taken your advice. Thank you

How do schools even get away with this kind of crap? Imagine if your employer told you that you could only eat outside.

I would be making a very big deal out of this.

Appalling. At my DC school they can eat in a couple of places or in canteen. I don't get why high school canteens are always too small for the number of children. Forcing children to eat in pouring rain is neglectful imo. Schools should allow children to eat a decent dinner before an afternoon of work. Poor eating effects behaviour & concentration.

Can you imagine if your child went to school and told them that the dinner table was full at home and the only other table was the garden one. Only it was raining so you had to miss your meal because you were heading out after dinner.
Safeguarding would be straight on your arse.
How is it acceptable for a school to do this? It's unbelievable.

I know I am being very PFB but I think that a dry place to sit and eat is a fairly basic requirement. My son has some SN and is reluctant to speak to anyone.

Jeez you are not at all. Have we really become so conditioned to accept any shit thrown at us that we believe it's unreasonable to expect our children to have a dry comfortable place to sit to eat their lunch?? Raise it and don't accept anything other than a resolution to the problem. He needs to eat.

Same at my dds school.
It’s really shit

This sounds really shit. I would definitely raise it. My DC are still in primary school so I don't have recent experience of this but when I was in school 20+ years ago we used to be able to sit in an empty classroom if it was raining at lunchtime. Teachers would check periodically to make sure we were behaving. If we weren't we weren't allowed back in. We used to play Uno.

I can't imagine the staff tolerating it if they were told the same ?!??
Can you imagine if they put the rule in their glossy prospectus / made it clear at open days? Parents would think they were mad.

Something similar happened at the start of term at the Secondary school in my local town - not sure if it was packed lunch eaters or the whole school (when not actually eating) shut out in the playing field in the rain and cold. I only know about it as someone raised it on the town Facebook page. It very quickly kicked off and got deleted (someone in management at the school is a member of the FB group. It was quickly resolved at the school concerned issued a statement which was also shared to the town group.

We always had same as @StylishDuck when I was at school. We used two specific classrooms.

You're not being unreasonable but think about how big the school is and where they'd accommodate/supervise so many kids. It's probably only for 20 mins anyway if it was anything like my ds's school.

I’d definitely raise it , our son is a yr 7 form tutor and he gets some ridiculous queries , yours sounds completely sane and reasonable .