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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

when parents don't agree

47 replies

fubichouk · 30/10/2021 13:57

Hi,
It's coming up to the deadline for eAdmissions for secondary school places. (it's tomorrow evening at midnight)
I'm in a position where my daughter has a list of school preferences, after having visited all the schools, and having discussed with the deputy head of her current school (who offered to mediate). We have sumitted our eApplication.
My ex-wife however doesn't acknowledge these preferences and has submitted a separate list of choices.
So we will have two conflicting applications for one child.
I have tried to reason with no avail. I don't want her application to be made void.
Is there any kind of service that can mediate this? The police?
I contacted a mediation organisation and they suggested an injunction but it's a bit late for that.

Any suggestions would be appreciated - I'm at a loss here!

OP posts:

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 30/10/2021 14:17

It’s not a police matter. You need to contact your council and see what happens with two submitted applications and make them aware of the issue so nothing gets voided. Then go from there.

DeliaDinglehopper · 30/10/2021 14:18

The police??

Where does your child live?

Butterflystar76 · 30/10/2021 14:20

Where does your daughter live? Is there a main residence? This will be the address that needs to be on the application (what address do the primary school have on record?)
It is important for the ranking process and influences the likelihood of being allocated a place at the preferred schools.

Original poster

fubichouk · 30/10/2021 14:30

Thanks for your replies.
The daughter is in shared parenting (50/50) currently contested and going through the courts. It's not clear to me which household is the main residence - according to the Universal Credit I'm the main household and I get help with child costs. However apparently she is still getting paid child benefit.
The primary school has both addresses, but I guess the mother's address is the main one because that's the home where we all used to live until about a year ago. GP the same - I didn't change it because that would start a dispute.
I contacted the compliance officer for Southwark, and they said the issue needs to be resolved before the deadline or the application will be voided. I don't think I should withdraw my application because it is the one that reflects the wishes of the child.

Absolute nightmare. I knew this would happen....

OP posts:

TeenMinusTests · 30/10/2021 15:13

No idea on legalities, but in general I don't think 10yos are the best placed to make decisions on their schooling.

Do you and ex have the same schools but in a different order, or different schools entirely?
Do you actually have a good chance of getting into chosen schools?

It is a shame you and your ex haven't been able to sort this out in time for the sake of your child.

Camdenish · 30/10/2021 15:14

I didn’t know it was possible to register a child twice.

Are you sure your ex has registered too? Who registered first and do you know the other preferences?

Are your preferences very different from your ex?

If there was more time I’d suggest a family lawyer and mediation but I can’t see that happening before tomorrow.

DeliaDinglehopper · 30/10/2021 15:39

I’d check with your local council. Where I am, they won’t process the application if they receive two.

Are you saying the arrangement is currently 50/50, and is that week on week off?

MintJulia · 30/10/2021 15:50

Practicalities first. Who will take your DD to school? Who will do the evening school run? Will travel to/from work to school be easier for the parent doing the most school runs?

At 10 I doubt your DD is the best authority on which school she should go to. My DS certainly wasn't. He'd have chosen it by football pitch!

What is your ex's reasoning for her choices? Have you actually discussed it? If you aren't careful, you'll end up with no place at all. Surely two grown-ups can compromise on a school that offers your DD a decent education?

Original poster

fubichouk · 30/10/2021 15:51

Thanks again everyone,
Yes it is a real shame we can't agree, and it will be the child that pays the price if we can't. I'm hoping to get someone to mediate or something...
The deputy head mediated, and I thought that was done. Then the list of choices came through: our list is basically the same, except a school that my daughter didn't really like was top, and the school that she wanted was somewhere down below, I can't remember.
The school she really liked was great, but is oversubscribed (Sydenham Girls')
I tried to get my lawyer involved but they said it's not their area. So then I tried mediation, but there wasn't enough time and last time we did mediation she didn't turn up.
It's typically her style to throw in a spanner right at the last minute, which is why I asked the deputy head if she could "press the button".

Ultimately I can see myself withdrawing my application, because I know she is prepared to let the whole process fail if it comes to it.
But I think it's really unfair on my daughter for her dad to not stick up for her wishes.

We're living 50/50, one week on, one week off.
The school we chose was actually recommended to us by her current deputy head as really suited to her.

I'm going to try to get someone to mediate, maybe even the church?

OP posts:

Theunamedcat · 30/10/2021 15:54

Are you even church goers?

BurntTheFuckOut · 30/10/2021 15:58

They probably meant an injunction through family court, not the police

DeliaDinglehopper · 30/10/2021 15:58

If you can’t agree, you need to go to court for a specific issue order. Before that, you’ll need family mediation.

Original poster

fubichouk · 30/10/2021 16:22

Thanks.
No we're not even religious!
But yes, a specific order or an injunction is definitely on the way.
But that's all going to happen post Oct 31st.
Right now I'm trying to make a witches hat for DD's costume.
I'm just going to have to reason with her again. I've got a headache.
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions!

OP posts:

titchy · 30/10/2021 16:29

Is she even likely to get a place at her other parents first choice? Has her other parent put Syd girls second? Are both applications from the same address? If they're not it's entirely possible that the duplicate won't be picked up, so you'd have to force a specific issue order to ascertain which should be regarded as the primary address and therefore valid application. Which may well be the one the CB is claimed from.

Out of interest how do you manage to claim child based UC if you're not the CB claimant?

SE13Mummy · 30/10/2021 17:01

Southwark doesn't seem to say on its website what it considers to be a child's main residence in the case of 50:50 shared care. Croydon and Lambeth are very clear that the address where child benefit is received should be used as the main residence in true cases of shared care so I wouldn't be surprised if Southwark is the same. That said, I'm aware of other families with similar arrangements who have agreed to use whichever address is closest to the first choice school in order to increase the child's chance of getting in.

It's a shame you and your ex do not agree on which school should be placed first. Does she live closer to the one she has put as first preference? Is your first preference a school your daughter would almost certainly get a place at? Is it the case that your daughter will not have her needs met at one of the schools but will at the other?

You have already been told by Southwark that if two applications are submitted, they will not be considered. If you are happy with the schools on your ex's list but contest the order of preference, you may have to withdraw your application so your daughter doesn't end up without a place at all. In the mean time, contact Southwark in writing and let them know about the current legal case and maybe request consideration under exceptional circumstances for a late (before 8th December) reordering of preferences if agreed in court.

Imitatingdory · 30/10/2021 19:57

I imagine Southwark will consider the mother's address to be the primary residence because following offers they require the child benefit letter or a letter from HMRC confirming you are no longer eligible due to income. Pg 15 of their booklet.

Camdenish · 30/10/2021 20:16

What’s perhaps equally important is for you and your ex to agree on your daughters main place of residence. As so many (all?) secondaries have distance to school somewhere in the admissions criteria that’s very important.

I know you’re frustrated and you’re only being short about your ex to us but it’s not really very helpful. The child’s education is important here.

My DD isn’t at the school she wanted to go to. We took her opinion into consideration but it went third on the list in the end. None of us has regretted that and she’s actually forgotten she wanted to go to that school.

BurntTheFuckOut · 30/10/2021 20:26

I would also like to point out that in reality, you don’t really get a “choice” with any schools, they stick you in the catchment school usually.

itsgettingwierd · 30/10/2021 20:37

Which address is in the catchment for the school she wants?

Most kids end up at catchment so the best bet for her to get what she wants is for that parents application to stand - even if their first choice differs.

It's an absolute lottery but probably no less chance of working than your current stalemate.

ChildOfFriday · 30/10/2021 20:39

@BurntTheFuckOut

I would also like to point out that in reality, you don’t really get a “choice” with any schools, they stick you in the catchment school usually.

This is incorrect. Each school ranks those who apply in order of the admissions criteria (regardless of where it is listed on your form- 1st, 6th or somewhere in between) and the LA will then offer you the school on your list that is able to offer you a place that you ranked highest. If you qualify for another school that you list above your catchment school, you will get the one you listed higher. For some people, it may be that it is in practice difficult for you to meet the criteria for any school other than your catchment of course, but the correct process will be followed and there is no just sticking people into catchment schools regardless of the schools on their form.

TizerorFizz · 31/10/2021 00:47

My DD is a family law barrister. People argue about this sort of thing all the time. Parents won’t “give in” for the sake of their children. They are all about defending their own position. In this case it’s saying the ex hasn’t put the schools in the order the DD wants. And do it goes on! Plenty of money for DD but some parents are very slow to realise they could be more reasonable! The child rarely gets what they want! Parents who don’t fall out over every little thing!

Crikeycroc · 31/10/2021 01:04

What is your ex wife’s rationale for the schools she has listed? Of course your DD’s preferences are very important but at 10/11 we are not always in the best position to make decisions about our future.

soapboxqueen · 31/10/2021 10:44

If you truely believe your ex-wife won't remove her application, then you should probably remove yours.

I appreciate you don't think it's fair but in reality if the LA are going to void both, your dd will be left without an application. Then ultimately she'll be given a school place based on what is left after everyone else has been allocated a place which will probably not be in a school either of you chose.

If on seeing two applications the LA don't immediately void the applications and ask the two of you to choose just one application, and you still both don't agree, they will likely indicate something like child benefit* as being the tie breaker. In which case it will still be your ex-wife's application that will stand.

*obviously I can't know this for sure. LAs may use other criteria.

Wannago · 31/10/2021 12:17

But I think it's really unfair on my daughter for her dad to not stick up for her wishes

Unfortunately I think soapboxqueen is right, and that the risk of ending up with no place at all for your DD is too high.

Hopefully you can explain to DD (just the facts, and show her the lists and order) as to what has happened, and why you feel you need to withdraw the application with the school she most wants on top (explain what soapboxqueen has explained) - and that it is not that you don't want to fight for her wishes, and you will do what you can, but there is only so much you can do and you really don't want her to not get any place at all which is likely if there are two applications in - but this is what you are going to try to do post the application to see if it can be changed ...

Hopefully she will understand, and understand you are doing your best for her (and you might get a steer from her how gutted she will be, which might give you an idea of how hard to fight). After all, this is really about her schooling, and even if she preferred the one, she might feel that she can accept the other and there are more important things to fight for. But she might feel that this is really important and she wants you to do what you can.

TizerorFizz · 31/10/2021 15:16

Don’t forget children can express different wishes to each parent. If you cannot discuss this like mature adults you will find DD will say what she wants to you but may well say something different to the other parent. If you sat down in the same room to discuss the options, you might have had a united front. In the circumstances, withdraw your application.

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