Who gets final say over secondary school preference?

[longestlurkerever]

So my dd and I have come up with our shortlist of 3 schools together taking into account each other's criteria (hers mainly distance and feel, mine mainly performance and safety). When it comes to the order of preference, her first choice would probably be my third.

Her reason for preference is her bff is likely to go there and it's the nearest (though they're all just about walkable or one bus, we've ruled out anything further away and they're all decent schools - good or outstanding ofsted, between 0.4 and 0.8 progress 8 and 0.49 and 0.59 attainment 8). Hers has the lowest scores of the three. It is, though, the only one we are guaranteed to get a place at so I certainly don't want to rubbish it as an option in her eyes, and I'm sure it would be fine.

Do I put down her preference first, knowing we will definitely get it and be ruled out of consideration for the other 2, or do I try to talk her into putting the others ahead of it? Or, third option, nod and smile at her preferred option but put it down as third preference, knowing that it's extremely unlikely we'd be offered one of the others on offer day and defer the conversation to if and when we get offered a waiting list place? Latter feels sensible but a bit of a betrayal.

I suppose what I'm asking is what weight did you put on your child's primary friendships in making a secondary school choice? Dd has struggled with friendships a bit in the past and is actively looking to make more friends in secondary. Part of me thinks it could be a mistake having one good friend in her new school as she might not dive into making other new friends, and she could still see current bff out of school but on the other hand I don't want that backfiring and her ending up with no good friends at school at all, or her being scared all year about the prospect of secondary school, as she's currently quite positive about it.

I think I'm leaning towards letting her have final say but is that silly?

I think the main consideration is why you would put it third?

What makes it worse than 2 other schools in oyur eyes?

TBH I wouldn't put too much weight on her best friend going to a school (again, will her parents put it first/how likely is she to get a place?). Kids usually make new friends very quickly. Would others from her primary school be likely to be going to all of the schools, or just that one?

All four of the factors you cite are relevant.

Off the top of my head I'd rank them something ROUGHLY like this, and of course you can't use these numbers to arrive at a precise quantified ranking of options because the factors aren't all measured in the same units, e.g. how would another 10 minutes' travel time compare with another 2 friends?

Distance: 30%
Progress: 40%
Attainment: 20%
Primary school friendships: 10%

Ignore the friends part my ds went to school with his friends he hardly ever sees them now he has made new friends

I think it's up to you tbh. You listen to your daughter yes, but ultimately you are the parent and she is the child and you have the final say when it's to do with the impact on the rest of her life.

You. You get the final say. Which one do you believe is going to set her up well for the rest of her future. She’s 10/11. She is a child.
It sounds like in the end she might get what she thinks she wants anyway but I would definitely make sure that what I thought was the best choice is what we aimed for.

Having friends to start with is a tricky one, arguably a two-edged sword - for some kids, it might give them confidence/a basecamp to meet other children, help through mutual friendships, etc. For others, it might arguably stop them from spreading their wings as fully.

In this scenario we explained to DC that we would take their preference into account but would make the final decision. We put the ‘might get in on a good day’ as option 1 (our preferred school) and ‘sure thing’ as option 2 (DC’s preferred school). In the event got option 2, top 10 waiting list for school 1. We were offered school 1 during the autumn term of Yr7 but at that point felt - for various reasons - that we wouldn’t force a move.

Thanks all! You've all articulated my dilemma pretty well, especially puffy! I think I'm in the wrangling over a few percentage points territory, so I'm not massively stressed about it either way but thanks for not making me feel like a dragon for thinking of putting other schools ahead of her preference. It's hard to say whether she'd have other friends at the other schools as we're all in similar boats re hoping to be lucky with waiting lists etc but her other primary friends are mostly going to schools we can't consider (private schools, selective schools of one sort or another, sibling priority/looked after criteria). She might have one classmate and one acquaintance at my first choice preference and a couple of friends at my second choice, a handful of classmates at her preference school including bff.

I suppose my reasons for preferring the other 2 are in the case of first choice school, its impressive progress 8/attainment 8/ofsted outstanding rating. In the case of second choice school it's co-ed (the other two are girls' schools which I can live with but isn't my preference), better progress 8/attainment 8. It's not an order of magnitude better though, so we are in the territory where friendships could swing it though, as puffy says, double-edged sword there. Difficult to predict.

Also her preference school seems a little bit more volatile. Could be on the up and about to be the next big thing as they have a new head and it does feel surprisingly overlooked locally, but could be about to lose its 6th form which may cause some good teachers to leave. The others feel safer bets to me, academically, but then I have heard the pastoral care is better at her preference school than the second choice one, and that's important to me too, especially, as I say, she's struggled with friendships in the past. Maybe I'll split the difference and go for the two girls schools ahead of the second choice one!

You haven't really mentioned ethos & feel.
I think those are very important together with pastoral care.
Single v mixed sex is big too in my opinion.

The Ofsteds are similar, the progress & attainment scores not wildly different.

Is there a difference in strictness, pushyness, homework etc?

Thanks, I agree that's important but it's really hard to build an accurate picture. Open days a bit restricted at the moment but they obviously all say the right things. I don't know many families at each school and the ones I do say slightly contradictory things. We did rule out one school we visited on ethos/feel though as it just felt a bit too stifling. I think, again, these have a similar vibe, though I think maybe the co-ed school has the least nurturing feel though, conversely, I like that it's co-ed.

I’d also throw in that you need to consider your child’s capability - some children will do well wherever they go, some might need a more ‘academically performing’ school to chivvy them along whereas for another child the ‘nurturing’ aspect is the most important. Where does your child sit on these criteria?

We gave DS1 the choice.
We had just moved him 3000 miles, to do Y6 in a new school, and apply for secondary.
We were happy with 2 schools, both of which were excellent. One downside to each, and we let DS make the decision on order. We filled places 3 and 4 with our other catchment school, and the other nearest decent school, and crossed our fingers we would get 1 or 2 (we did).

We have just given DS2 the same choice.

If you are happy with all 3 schools, and dont gave big concerns about any of them, why not let DD take control?

@Williamshatnershorses

I’d also throw in that you need to consider your child’s capability - some children will do well wherever they go, some might need a more ‘academically performing’ school to chivvy them along whereas for another child the ‘nurturing’ aspect is the most important. Where does your child sit on these criteria?

Thanks - that's a whole separate thread in itself. She's certainly capable of doing very well but kind of on her own terms - she doesn't respond very well to external motivation and I think very pushy/strict would backfire, but I have high aspirations for her generally. Her school report says she's exceeding expectations in maths (though not outstanding or anything). English is complicated as she scored full marks in her end of year assessments for reading comprehension and has a real sense of poetry but her spelling and grammar is all over the place despite knowing it in theory. There's a possibility she has some SEN/neurodiversity but she doesn't have a diagnosis. I briefly explored the "super-selective schools" but in a half-hearted way because the journey would be a pig but she didn't really engage more than the bare minimum with the prep and I dropped it.

I think she should have the final say but you should work really hard in getting her to consider your options first.

The difference in those progress scores is minimal, same with attainment. I would class them all as the same, which would be well above the national average for progress and attainment.

None of my 3 high school aged children have maintained close friendships with other children from their primary school. They get split up in different classes and naturally make new friends. I wouldn't let the fact that her best friend will be going, influence you.

Buy-in is crucial, she needs to go to the school she is most happy to go to. Unless it's awful in which case the parent should override.

Have you been to see the schools? She may be swayed if she likes a different school once she sees it.

Obviously you can do what you like but in my experience pulling rank rarely has a positive outcome.

Have you looked at the size and subject range of 6th form. Sounds ages away but an upheaval at 16 is just as hard. Eg. Musically inclined - A level music? Humanities offer a range? Incumbent students often have first dibbs of 6th form places and the other places become available to outsiders who are academically able who are asked for higher grades. Depends on what the arrangements are in your area.

@martingrowler

Buy-in is crucial, she needs to go to the school she is most happy to go to. Unless it's awful in which case the parent should override.

Have you been to see the schools? She may be swayed if she likes a different school once she sees it.

Obviously you can do what you like but in my experience pulling rank rarely has a positive outcome.

Thanks. I think this is where my head is at currently. The friendship thing is the only binary choice - the others are all shades of OK, so it feels harsh to "pull rank". On the other hand everyone else's comments are all valid - she probably won't even be in class with her friend. It's less about that, I guess, more about whether she's viewing the school positively from the outset.

That said I started a thread about two of the schools in question and it was unanimously against her preference. Hard to go against the received wisdom.

I'm concerned the 6th form there could close altogether, though it's quite normal here to move at that age - I guess because all the schools are geographically quite close. There are another 3 schools in walking distance I am not putting on my list at all.

For me I would leave the final say to my daughter as it is her that has to spend the next few years at the school.

However I was also ask her to think once more before you complete the form with her taking into account that friendship group generally change once you start secondary school.
By the end of the first term she is likely to have a new bff.

Honestly, since all three are close in performance scores, I would let my DD go with her preference. Secondary school is a change in itself and having a best friend there would be invaluable, especially for your DD as you say she struggles to make friends.

I would not worry about sixth form at this time, that is 5yrs away.

I would say that as there's not all that much between the schools to go with her choice because if she feels she is 'encouraged' to go to another school and she doesn't enjoy it then she may look back with resentment on this whole process in the future.

Also schools can change a lot in 5/7 years.

Thanks all. I'll have an open minded chat with her about the pros and cons. Hopefully she'll trust me on it as I have ruled out the school she wasn't keen on. We can view 2 of the schools this week but my first choice one I have viewed but she hasn't seen, and unfortunately can't now. She might be ok with me putting it down as preference though on the basis that the risk of being allocated it is very slim and maybe if they offer us a waiting list place they'd let us view it then. 2nd and third choice more difficult to delay choosing between but I think I'm genuinely open minded between them.

In this situation I'd ignore the progress scores, especially as performance will have been both volatile and difficult to chart recently.
If the school she favours is good enough, within easy travel distance, has strong pastoral care and you're very likely to get a place, I'd put that as the first choice.