Should I move heaven and earth to get DD (13) into a better school?

[FrazzledY9Parent]

DD is in Y9 at our local secondary school. The school has some really good features and I know lots of parents are very happy with it. However, it does not stretch DD at all and she has become bored and frustrated. (They only set for Science.)

At parents' evening the teachers all said how great she was, and that she was top of the class, but she says she's operating at 30% of what she could achieve. Her attitude towards school has completely deteriorated and she makes little or no effort with her homework (which is largely pointless copying bullet points from a handout, so I can see her point).

She has high aspirations and wants to apply to Oxford. I know that she has the ability to do very well at GCSE despite the less academic ethos of the school - she'd have good support from me. But it saddens me that she's not stimulated/engaged by school, and I worry that she'll lose interest.

Should I move her before Y10 (when GCSEs will start)?

Every secondary in our city is oversubscribed, so we'd have to move very close to one and go on a waiting list. Having spoken to other parents, I don't think there are any that really have an academic ethos (a lot of people go private and I am beginning to understand why).

Private is off the table for financial reasons plus her dad would never agree.

So realistically we would need to move out of the city and into the surrounding area where there are some more academic state schools.

Is it worth it? Or should I just hold my nerve and hope things pick up a bit in Y10/11?

Would greatly appreciate input from those who have been there/done that!

Ownership obliterates boredom. Let her take her education into her own hands.

@Magicalwoodlands

Hopefully this won’t sound harsh but I think the ‘boredom’ thing can be a bit of a cop-out.

Do you (or she) really think that if she was at a super academic private or grammar school that she’d be stimulated and engaged and stretched all day? I doubt it. I think you’d be more likely to get more of the same. Any school will consist of a certain amount of seemingly pointless tests, sit here, do that, repeat that.

I think it’s really easy to make assumptions about different schools but they are all probably more similar than different - as much as every school claims to have an individual ethos, they don’t, really.

Personally, I think moving schools at this late stage has the potential to cause a few difficulties.

IME, a selective private will provide lessons that are pretty much universally stretching and stimulating. When my dd went private at secondary, she said they moved about four times faster than at her primary - things were explained once, then off they went. It suits her very well, but it is very different to mixed ability teaching.

OP I’d echo looking in to bursaries, if (big if) there are any private schools nearby that you think would suit her. Beyond that, have you looked at online groups for gifted children? There are some fantastic things on offer which provide a similar peer group, as well as some brain stretching, this is one I’ve found and would recommend www.p4he.org/

But if she capable of the very top grades, she should get them wherever she is.

That’s not how it works in reality. There have been numerous scientific studies on the wasted potential of students in bad schools and how a poor education is the primary influence on a person’s academic achievements. Your viewpoint is that the education one receives has no bearing on your academic achievement. If this were true, then you’d also be saying that all middle class children are simply more intelligent than working class children, because they do better.

OP,
I moved when my DCs secondary school went downhill. We went outside the city to a village with a very good state school. It was the best thing we ever did as not only did this school actually support gifted children, it even had links with top universities to help the students with their applications. My DC also made new friends with people that were more academic and similar to them in interest.

I think if there are no bursaries, you would not be wrong to look at moving outside your city and to a place that encourages your DC academically.

If she's clever then there's no reason she can't get good grades at any school, my DD's school was in special measures and they sacked the head half way through her year 10 and was on acting head for the rest of her time there - she got 10 A's & a*'s. Change her for 6th form though, you can't self teach a levels. Get a tutor perhaps if budget allows - I topped up with homeschooling as tutors weren't an option

From personal experience, I was this kid. I absolutely loved learning, was always in the top 2% and then at some point, school just slowed down far too much to be interesting and was more busy work than stimulation. It killed any interest I had in learning, and my life stalled out for a while. I ended up doing fairly poorly my last four years of school. If you think she's losing interest and can do something to retain her passion in learning, I would do it.

@EllieNBeeb

From personal experience, I was this kid. I absolutely loved learning, was always in the top 2% and then at some point, school just slowed down far too much to be interesting and was more busy work than stimulation. It killed any interest I had in learning, and my life stalled out for a while. I ended up doing fairly poorly my last four years of school. If you think she's losing interest and can do something to retain her passion in learning, I would do it.

Also note I'm not talking about grades here. Retaining a passion for learning is far more important than grueling to get good grades and hating every minute in my opinion. The British school system has pretty largely gotten that wrong over the past decade or so.

@DoesHePlayTheFiddle

Ownership obliterates boredom. Let her take her education into her own hands.

That's an excellent way to put it DoesHePlayTheFiddle and I think you're right.

OP, I don't think you should be researching extra-curricular groups etc - your dd should be doing it if she really believes that she's only working at 30% of her capacity and is motivated to do more.

Honestly, I think you will struggle to find a secondary school that stretches.

Schools are judged on their GCSE/A-level results. If a student can easily achieve A/A with no support, teachers will rightly give more energy to students who's results they can improve. There is really no incentive to move a student beyond the A/A range.

Both my boys achieve in school very easily. I moved a child to an independent school for GCSE. They did not stretch him so much as hyper-prepare him to succeed on exams. I think the stretching comes from extra-curricular activities. I'd concentrate on those. (my youngest son has just learned to be lazy, but he achieves straight A*. I worry, but I am aware it is a priviledged worry. He is looking forward to mocks as a bit of fun).

I'd hold my nerve @FrazzledY9Parent. It might just be your dd who's going through a phase and changing school will add potentially lots of stress. What does she want? What are her interests? Has she got good friends in our outside of school?

Also, do you have younger siblings to think of? Which schools are better for them? IME with older dc, it really depends on the attitude of the child, it's easy to feel the school is responsible but your dd has to find the motivation to do well within herself. The general stroppiness could well be hormones.

What are her sixth form options?

Round here most DC go on to sixth form college, which is a whole different kettle of fish for A levels. Or go private at that point for 2 years.

If she wants to go Oxbridge she needs to take some ownership herself of this. It’s no good saying “I’m bored and no one is as academic as me” - there’s loads of ways she can stretch herself with the help of just one or two teachers, IMO.

Ultimately motivation needs to come from her- if the prospect of Oxford is sufficiently motivating get her researching exactly what she needs to get there now…

I was this child. I actually got brilliant grades (all A*s and As and GCSE and 4 As at A-level) but I lost my passion for learning at secondary. I'm not sure if it's the case at your DD's school but at mine there wasn't really a learning culture and it wasn't "cool" to want to do well so I used to do the bare minimum and pretend I didn't care.

It was a real shock when I got to uni and the other students actually had opinions they wanted to share, read around the subject voluntarily etc. I also work in an industry where the vast majority of my peers when to private or selective secondaries - of course that may change in future.

Ultimately it might not be possible but I'd look very seriously at moving her. It might be a slim chance but I think it's worth going on the waiting lists of all the better schools in the area - you might think you don't live close enough but you never know, you might get lucky.

If I was moving it would be out of the city to a guaranteed school place where houses are the same price if not cheaper. The last time I moved it cost me £15k which could be absorbed in the mortgage - school fees here are a minimum of £15k per year which absolutely is out of reach.

Wouldn't you have to consider stamp duty? What is she interested in reading at Oxford? Get her to volunteer DoE but get her to take charge of her boredom and find things that actually interest her. Unless you go private selective, no school will stretch a very able child. She has the luxury to make the most of all her free time if she doesn't nee to study much.

I just think that moving heaven and earth might well backfire. What if your dd doesn't like the new school? Imagine how responsible for all the upheaval she might feel. I'd encourage her to knuckle down and do her best but also to get involved in activities either at school or privately.

I could have written this post. We’ve just moved our year 9 daughter to a private school. She seems much happier now she is at a school that has a culture of learning. My daughter is not the most hard working child, but because everybody else is working hard she’s working to keep up. She’s amazed at how few distributions there are in class- and she loves the food!!

I am considering moving my y9 dd to another secondary for gcses. My reasons are a bit different to yours, but a lot of what you say resonates.

My first question is whether your dd has raised moving schools? Moving house and schools is hard, and if you're doing it for her I'd want to make sure she was on board.

My next thing is to think about your motivation. My understanding is that it is two-fold. The first is that she is bored/losing interest and its having a negative attitude on her behaviour and well being.

Secondly, you are concerned that staying where you are will limit her opportunities. This is a crucial moment and if you don't get it right, it could really impact future education and financial outcomes.

Thinking about the first point, I think year 9 is tough. To be honest, all of ks3 is quite tough. It can feel lacking in purpose - exams are too far away for sustained effort with school work. She will still be studying a lot of subjects she has no interest in and with the ones she is interested in, she's studying them alongside people who aren't which will affect learning behaviours.

On top of this, hormones and general teenagerness will be coming into play.

As a parent looking on, its hard to watch but if some of your motivation comes from your own unease, then I think sitting tight where she is might be the best option.

Regarding whether staying may limit her future options, it might be worth refining exactly what those options may be. Are they definitely not available if she stays? What are the limiting factors? If you are concerned that she will underperform at GCSEs in the current set up, then maybe moving her would be a good idea. However, she would need to be really on board with this.

I think I would just chat to her. She says she's bored but the fact is that school is boring. If she hasn't raised moving school, then she may be quite surprised that this is your response to her feelings about school at the moment.

Knowing 13 year old girls, I would bite my tongue for a couple of weeks in the hope that exams/university/career paths comes up. Maybe engineer opportunities where she opens up: in the car or eating out, whatever you know works. If she articulates a road map that needs certain results gcse that both of you think she needs to move for, then I would start the ball rolling.

We actually moved house recently, primarily for better schools for our kids. Lots of people told us not to bother as we were the "kind of parents" who would make sure she did well. Motivated kids can do well anywhere, regardless of class size, etc.

A month into the new schools and I am so glad we moved. Don't underestimate the value of the peer group. If not much is expected of the kids in the current school, that's what they'll achieve. Your daughter is smart, bored and in a school that isn't "particularly academic". Honestly, I think you'd be doing her a disservice to keep her there.

Hello hello. Firstly, so sorry to hear you are in this situation. Nothing worse than watching your kid’s motivation decline due to being understretched at school. It’s almost like you see their little flame of enthusiasm go out. :-(

For me, if my DD were feeing that way I too would take that as a warning sign that she needs a change or extra support to help her get the grey matter enjoying some healthy challenge again. The school day is long and there need to be some periods where she is feeling stretched to stop her from feeling like she’s treading water until the home bell.

Can the school set her some EPQ style challenges - maybe let her go to the library to research topics at a higher level than current class progress? Can she join some GCSE classes to let her have a taste of what’s to come and rekindle her spark? Can they move her up a year? I know different schools have different policies but still, Ofsted does look to see what each school is doing for high, middle and lower achievers so it’s not an unreasonable request for more stretch and differentiated learning. We had feedback on that in our recent Ofsted.

If the school continues to be unresponsive I’d look at moving her. Look again at local schools and dialogue specifically with them about what they do for more able/high achiever/greater depth pupils. (Everyone has their own terminology!) It may be that a school that looks so so from the outside might just have some teachers who are focusing on this. Worth exploring. If not, I would look at bursaries (they are much more generous than you’d think, some only cut off at a six figure income, which really surprised me.) Or moving as a last resort. You may decide that a longer commute to school is worth it for the intellectual challenge, so I’d widen the net in terms of search area as well.

Hope this helps - am crossing my fingers for you both x

Year 9 is a bit rubbish. I held my nerve because I knew ds's school pulled out all the stops for GCSEs and A levels. That's where most of the really good teachers were. It was a good year to do Bronze Duke of Edinburgh and his first music exams.

If you look further up the school and can't see that it's much better there, yes I would seriously consider a move.

Thanks everybody for your comments. I am having a good read and will reflect on everything you say. A lot of food for thought and it's interesting that there is a range of views. No easy answers! I really appreciate the opportunity to think it through here because it's not a terribly easy thing to raise in real life without sounding like you are stealth boasting.

Her current school don't have a sixth form: it is a part of an academy chain that has a separate sixth form that is truly unacademic and wouldn't be an option.

Historically, she would have got into the more academic sixth forms in our city, but I worry that the intense pressures on school places means she won't get a place (although there are minimum GCSE requirements, they are not very high, and geographical proximity plays a bit role). So it might be worth keeping my powder dry for a possible move after GCSE. Luckily (in this particular scenario) she is an only child, so there are no younger siblings to bear in mind.

@Innocenta, thank you for your excellent suggestions on things that might stretch her. I do hear what you are saying @christinarossetti19 about how she has to find her own challenges - I agree. But she's gone into a bit of a slump and I feel like it's my job as a parent to lay an initial trail of breadcrumbs - up to her then if she follows it!

What percentage of students get 7-9 in GCSE? If minimal look to move her. If it’s a good number you know they teach to that level and she should be fine. I remember having a conversation with a really great teacher at my sons school when he was in year 9 and not working hard: he looked at me and said “year 9, biggest waste of time” I think that he had a point, by year 10 they stepped up and year 10 and 11 were hard work and they were challenged and got the grades. His 6 x 8 and 3x7 didn’t even get on to the well done list.

@Sunnyfreezesushi

Have you looked into state boarding schools and bursaries in private schools? Lots of top private schools help driven and talented children with no means to pay.

This. And this also includes bursaries for boarding schools which are also available.

I know you say you can't afford it, but can you add to your mortgage for two years of private and get her back on track.

If moving costs £15k and you can add that to the mortgage, can you do that anyway and find the rest?

It might be helpful to know which city you are talking about as there are possibly parents with first hand experience.

In our school for example, you can earn up to £85k and own a house and still be eligible for a bursary.

If the school has spaces they often want to fill them. The issue you might have is that it doesn't sound like her attitude is great and they might worry that that won't change at a new school.

Have you researched which schools have vacancies or how long the wait lists are? Perhaps a better school somewhere has a place available and she could find a way to commute there? Don’t move just on the off chance a place may come up, as that may never happen!

If she is getting 90 - 100% in tests then she will likely come out with a raft of 7s to 9s at GCSE and her Oxbridge chances will be unaffected by what school she is at.