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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Is another move of school crazy?

79 replies

Noangelbuthavingfun · 05/09/2021 21:22

Long story short... moved DS at start of year 6 to small private school. Anxious if it was the right decision... but he has improved and built confidence so it was a good year. The school is boys only and goes up to GCSE so he can start year 7 now. A place has just been offered to us at our first choice state secondary ... didn't think we would get in. It's larger with normal class sizes but he will see friends and its local. It's also a big risk as due to having SEN he struggles quietly and gets overlooked in class. I am sure this isn't unique for some boys .
So..
Do I move him and take a chance? Of do I keep him in small private for some splud grounding and possibly move before GCSE or even stay on ?
It would be nice to save the money but main decision is what's best for him. How important is it to have local friends and community spirit vs possible better learning support but friends spread out?
Any advice appreciated !!!

OP posts:
Tamary97 · 07/09/2021 09:41

You can move him in year 9 or 10 if you find a place but it will be more disruptive; by that time kids have already established friendship groups. I would keep him in the private If you can afford it until year 11, otherwise I would move him to the state school now and push for support and an EHCP.

secular39 · 07/09/2021 10:35

Whoever told you that you cannot get your EHCO for your daughter because there are others more "severe" lied to you. Apply directly- you don't need school to do it. Just send an initial letter to your La requesting for one. You can even get the LA to pay for your child's current private school.

secular39 · 07/09/2021 10:37

[quote Noangelbuthavingfun]@gowalkabout why not at the end if year 8 ? I thought many do this if the school isn't quite right or in and out of state ? Obviously if its going well and can be managed then we won't. Just curious to why you say now it never . Tx[/quote]
Children who left schools in secondary were mostly in Year 7.

30daysandcounting · 07/09/2021 10:41

Lots of movement at DDs (private) secondary school at the start of Year 9. A few left, quite a few joined. I think movement does depend a bit on where you live. In London it happens a lot in Y&, 8 and 9. Less so in Y9 and 10.

secular39 · 07/09/2021 10:47

@Christmasfairy2020

I'd stay private. Better schools better support. Better families etc. If he has autism adhd then if you put him in private he may gravitate towards the bad kids with drugs etc
I neither agree or disagree with the comment. Having sent my children from state to private, I can understand where this poster is coming from.

There's an idea that parent who admit their children into private education or fight for their kids to enter into a private school, are mostly the type of parents who care about their children's education. Not always the case, some parents are just happy to splash the money but most do care about the education. Not only that private do not bullshit when it comes to excluding children who bully. Not all the time, but often it does.

In state, it is difficult to know which parents care about their children's education. Some just see it as a babysitting service or just that the kids go to school and come back. The parents who I found that care were the parents who were doing extra curricular activities with their children or tuition, the ones who couldn't afford it, were often teaching their children at home, make complaints towards the teachers etc etc.

ADHD or even neurodiverse peers are very very influenced when it comes to being in the "bad crowd" that's why most are in the prison system. Sad, but true. However, being in state keeps your child grounded and the ability to mix with different peers from different backgrounds

ChequerBoard · 07/09/2021 11:24

I think the issue here is that you seem to think you can decide to move your DC to the state school whenever it suits you.

You have a place now and it's your choice whether to take it, but the likelihood that you will be able to get a place in a year or two is very doubtful, especially if it's high performing, oversubscribed school.

JoyOrbison · 07/09/2021 11:31

My colleague sent her dc to private.

In her words "Kids are still little shits, just little shits with money"

Obvs not a school with the better familiesHmm

Sootess · 07/09/2021 11:57

In your situation @Noangelbuthavingfun there are only 2 reasons I would move him.
You/ he is unhappy with the private school (may be for educational or social reasons) OR you can no longer afford it.

You are taking a big leap of faith to move a child with SEN from a place where he is settled and it is meeting his needs to another school where you have no idea if this will continue to be the case.

Hoopa · 07/09/2021 12:15

@Christmasfairy2020
Thank you for making me laugh out loud. Better families! My husband was at the most famous boys boarding school and I was at the most famous sports school in the country and what we encountered was like a scene from breaking bad! Endless money, endless drugs, children whose parents were largely absent, unbelievable parties, jet set holidays involving hard narcotics. Better families. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. None.

secular39 · 07/09/2021 12:21

@Sootess

In your situation *@Noangelbuthavingfun* there are only 2 reasons I would move him. You/ he is unhappy with the private school (may be for educational or social reasons) OR you can no longer afford it.

You are taking a big leap of faith to move a child with SEN from a place where he is settled and it is meeting his needs to another school where you have no idea if this will continue to be the case.

But on the flip side, the risk is if the private school is not meeting her sons needs, he may be worst off. It's a gamble. Sometimes you need to move on to progress.
SJaneS49 · 07/09/2021 12:30

Agreed. Along with the completely spurious implication by a PP that Private school parents care more about their children’s education. I doubt there is a higher percentage of State parents seeing schooling as a babysitting service than Private, if anything I’d suspect the reverse given the longer school day. The comment around most ADHD/neurodiverse people in prison is also 🙄 but I suspect that’s bad phraseology rather than intent.

But this is turning into another State V Private slagging match which is not what the OP intended. Good luck with the decision making OP but once you’ve made it, try not to replay in your head too much!

Contentedpiggy · 07/09/2021 12:39

I think that it is unwise to move a happy child and it sounds like he is flourishing. That said mine go to a state secondary and we LOVE the local community feel and their social lives are very buoyant - I don’t think I would want to give that up, but then maybe I haven’t witnessed the value add of a private school.
Oooh tough choice OP!

secular39 · 07/09/2021 12:44

@SJaneS49

I think your being a bit sensitive.

I said that there is a thinking that parents who pay for their children's education care about their education. I did say that this is not always the case and similarly to mainstream schools.

The majority of young adults/teenagers in prison have additional needs- whether that's ASD, ADHD, learning difficulties etc. I'm sorry, but it is a fact, and data supports this. Most often, these young people/adults did not get the help that they need much younger or were vulnerable to groups or individuals of people.

Contentedpiggy · 07/09/2021 12:50

@secular39
I would love to see this data as I have a child with SEN - where do I find it please? Can you give me a link?

PanelChair · 07/09/2021 13:13

This reply to a Parliamentary Question gives links to various statistics.

The Prison Reform Trust published a report more than a decade ago, saying that children with learning difficulties were over-represented in prison because the youth justice system failed to recognise their needs.

SJaneS49 · 07/09/2021 13:29

I’m not being sensitive in the least @secular39.
The way you’ve written your comments raised my eyebrows - yes many people in prison might have SEN, I do not disagree. But what you wrote was that most people who had ADHD or were neuro-diverse were in prison which is not one and the same thing:

“ ADHD or even neurodiverse peers are very very influenced when it comes to being in the "bad crowd" that's why most are in the prison system”

And I did you the favour of assuming you’d made a mistake in phraseology when you had written this!

And as for your comments on private/state parents ‘caring’, just to remind you what you actually wrote:

Re private “ but most do care about the education. ”
Re State “ In state, it is difficult to know which parents care about their children's education. Some just see it as a babysitting service or just that the kids go to school and come back.”

You may believe you have been fair and even handed but to me, it didn’t come across that way. But as I said, I’m not sure a Private/State slanging match does much for the OP here.

Noangelbuthavingfun · 07/09/2021 15:06

@Sootess you got that spot on I think that's what I need to do. I know the place in state wont be there later and that is what's making me nervous. What if it could have been an amazing state school and I gave it up ? I guess I have to go with info I have now......and that is what I know of current school. He is making progress and happy at present ....

OP posts:
IceLace100 · 07/09/2021 15:29

@Christmasfairy2020

I'd stay private. Better schools better support. Better families etc. If he has autism adhd then if you put him in private he may gravitate towards the bad kids with drugs etc
"Better families"

Christ. Alive.

It's this kind of outright snobbery you'll avoid if he goes to the state school. Is this the sort of attitude you want him to absorb in his formative years?

And to this poster- shame on you for your elitist attitude. Maybe time to examine your opinions about other human beings.

Noangelbuthavingfun · 07/09/2021 15:35

@SJaneS49 thank you ! Agree I didn't want this to be a private vs state debate in the way it is turning out either. Some guidance on the risks of both options for my sons learning has been helpful and that's what I will focus on

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 07/09/2021 15:47

It really depends on the school. My dd was at a small independent school and thrived. Her SEN was only diagnosed due to the exception SENCO as she masked very well and they took exceptional care of her.

For ds it was another matter. Despite having been in prep since the age of 4 in seniors it was appalling. They refused to help in his assesments, refused to put in place the things the Ed Pscyh recomended and eventully in year 8 asked hom to leave. They destroyed his mental health. The state sector was far more caring for him.

So do your research.

ShouldersBackChestOutChinUp · 07/09/2021 15:57

Better families! Hilarious.

I knew some really shifty and dodgy people at my dcs prep school.

Noangelbuthavingfun · 07/09/2021 15:58

@contentedpiggy.... don't.... that's exactly what I think I will be giving up.... by staying in private ! Which is more important ? Ideally you should not have to compromise on either but sadly in our case weight have to... better learning and support at the expense of lack of local friends and community... sigh

OP posts:
Noangelbuthavingfun · 07/09/2021 16:03

@Comefromaway I am so sorry to hear about your experience with your DS! This type of thing scares me but I probably worry more than most and should just go with the facts we have at our disposal today... the fact I cannot get hold of the state senco is a big flag for me and another poster mentioned that feeling comfortable with their approach is key.
I wish you could get something like a trial 2 weeks and then decide ! Anyone else feel like this ?! I am always going to wonder "what if" if I keep him in current school (well unless he continues to thrive ).
I suppose I should mention - of it gives any context that he is an only child and the local friends worry me as I don't want him to be lonely.... but is that worth potentially being miserable in school itself if he keeps struggling ? Anyway ... I think overwhelmingly people on here suggested keep him where he is if he is doing well. He is. So.....

OP posts:
SJaneS49 · 07/09/2021 16:43

In terms of local friends have you tried Scouts OP? My DD travels quite far to her school and Scouts has been good for keeping and making local friendships. There are a couple of children with SEN in my DDs Scout troop and they all seem to muck in together well.

secular39 · 07/09/2021 18:57

@SJaneS49 fair enough. Didn't want to debate between private vs state. I do think for the non-affluent parents, who are working class or don't work and their DC's are in private schools, I believe shows that those type of parents really care about their DC's education (not saying that parents in state schools don't before I get accused). For the affluent family, it could be just keeping up with the appearances, just throwing money any how, not caring. But I wanted to get across that there's a general consensus that parents place their kids into private schools care about their kids education, even though for some it may be far from the truth.

In the context of SEN. The situation is more complex. I have known some private schools who have excluded children based on their SEN and not want to provide the extra often, often than not, these paying are paying extra to provide 1:1 support/tor therapies at the DC's private schools. There are private special needs schools which often cater to the children with "mild" needs but can following the national curriculum and have in house therapies etc.

Mainstream secondary can be a bit and miss and you have to be extremely lucky and it depends on the profile of your child. At this stage, it's all about pushing results and Ofsted. Most of these mainstream secondaries (and again not all before I get flamed) tend to "leave" the SEN children. They may get some support, or have 1:1 TA's but the strategies are generally not carried across the classes, and some mainstream teachers are just clueless and overstretched with 30 plus kids in a class and Ofsted breathing down their necks. When these happen, SEN children in this predicament, are left through the net and years come later, they have no job, no qualifications, and mental health is through the roof. Not only that, but mainstream schools do not have enough funds for resources let alone kids who have additional needs.

On the flip side, you may get a supportive school (private or state) or your child may end up at a special school and the teachers know what they are doing, they know the strategies, but your child is not getting the differentiated support or the therapies that they need.

It's a tough one. One thing I keep in mind is that your child is just another number, another pupil in their class/school. You really cannot solely rely on a school to help your child. You will have to be the one to "fight" as much for your child to get the appropriate support that he needs... because once your child reaches 16/18- that's it. That's the schools job and then you are left dealing with the aftermath of your child not getting the support for X amount of years. That's why I'm not shocked at all that the SENCo at your child's school said that your child doesn't need it...it's a lot of paperwork for them, they don't need that headache with all the other stuff that they have to get on. So apply for the EHCP for your child, itself.

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