Any success stories after a failed appeal?

[GoldenMushroom]

Hello everyone

We found out lost our daughter's appeal for secondary school yesterday (all done via written submissions) and i really need to hear if anyone's DC have managed to do ok in a school that wasn't their first choice.

DD is under referral to CAHMS for as yet undiagnosed autism/adhd and severe anxiety. We are stuck because of COVID ie unable to get the appointments we needed. Plus she has been ripped apart from her entire friendship group who she relies on for pretty much everything.

None of this appeared to matter one iota to the appeals panel. Now her anxiety is spiralling - she's already showing worrying signs around food/eating and yesterday she started literally pulling chunks of hair out of her head.

I dont know what to do. I know we are still reeling from this decision and probably over emotional but to say this panel have utterly destroyed her right now feels like an understatement.

I know im rambling now and there's nothing i can do but please please just tell me if any of your DC managed to do ok in a school that wasn't their first choice??

Thanks for reading this far...

So sorry to read this OP. I do know that my DCs' secondary school is not the first choice of a lot of local parents as they apply (hopefully) to the outstanding secondary in a nearby village. They are out of catchment so don't usually get in, and end up at the local school as a second best. AFAIK in all cases where I know the family well enough, it has turned out fine.

Your case sounds different tho - in my examples most parents were "ah well, worth a shot" and accepted the local school with its advantages of being within walking distance and local friends.

Where is the school you have been allocated? Was it on your list? Is it your local school so she will be able to walk there? Can you try to talk it up in those terms?

Also I believe you are allowed to appeal again (I am not an expert) - by which time you may have some more convincing medical evidence to support your appeal (I think it is you that said you hadn't been able to get DD assessed bc of COVID?). Where are you on the waiting list, any hope there?

Really tho I would try to get her enthused about the offer school - uniform, subjects, clubs, find out if anyone she knows is going there.

The thing to do now is to be positive about the school she's got. Ask them if she can do a daytime tour or an additional taster day there to get a feel for the place (is her year doing a day there anyway, they may put on additional days for students who would benefit from this). A daytime tour, even one for just an hour helped my DD when she didn't get her first choice - the Head of Year took us round.

If you know that your child will be using the Student Support Services (or whatever term the school uses) can you get in contact with them or the SENCO and arrange a meeting with your child to look round there as well? Get an idea of what support will be available for her.

We didn't get our DD's first choice and our appeal didn't succeed. She's fine where she is and made really lovely friends straight away. Do not blame the panel for not putting the appeal through. You can stay on the waiting list of the preferred school but may never get to the top so I do think it's better for the child to know where they will go now and work towards that.

I have seen it hundreds of times, teaching and having my own children go through the system. We live in an area where parents become very fraught about secondary schools and there’s a lot of stress in year 6. There are tears and appeals and people move house and consider going private. But hardly anyone is still worried by Christmas of year 7. Most children are absolutely fine. Although it seems very worrying now, friendships almost always rearrange in year 7 anyway, even if they come with established groups, so it may be less of an issue than it seems at the moment. It’s important that you show your DD that you believe it’s going to be OK at school number 2, even if you do continue trying to get her a place in your preferred school.

You have the basic right of appeal once for each academic year, so if you don't get a place from the waiting list in the meantime, the next time that you can appeal is when the school / LA opens up applications for her year group to join year 8 - usually round about this time in year 7.

But as pp have said, the thing to do now is to get her (and yourself) as enthusiastic as possible about the school that she has been allocated - you can describe it as the school that chose her, perhaps? - and make sure that the school knows about your DD's concerns.

And presumably she can still see her primary school friends outside of school, even if they go to different secondary schools?

It’s not about how much the panel cares. The panel has to operate within the parameters of the appeals code and has to weigh up the detriment to your child in not getting a place and the detriment to the pupils already in the school if they have to cater for an additional pupil.

I surmise that your appeal mentioned friendship issues, which wouldn’t usually be enough to win an appeal, unless you had a letter from CAMHS or other health care professionals confirming that in their professional opinion your child needs to remain with their friendship group to help manage their anxiety. It sounds harsh, but appeals on medical/social grounds usually succeed only where the parents can show that the school is the only one that can meet the child’s needs.

As others have said, you can appeal again next year, but your best option might be to pursue an EHCP that names the school.

Our appeal was successful based upon social and medical due to SEN and anxiety. We had letters of support from my DCs Ed Psych and his psychotherapist which I think made all the difference to be honest. They both explicitly stated that my DC had a greater need than other children to be placed with an already established supportive peer group. If you can appeal again I’d try to get professionals on board, we went private as the waiting list for CAMHS is appalling here.
I feel for you, it’s incredibly stressful

Our appeal was also unsuccessful too. So sorry things didn't go how you wanted. It's such a stressful time.

We have put the failed appeal school to the back of our minds now and looking ahead to the allocated school now. DC isn't looking forward to it at all but are making the best of the situation and I'm sure all will be OK.

From your opening post, it sounds like 100% the right decision by the appeals panel. Absolutely no way should any child start secondary school with another child ‘relying on them for pretty much everything’. Any hint we get from primary schools or parents of that sort of relationship, and the children will be split up as distantly as possible, and if that is not possible in one school, then it may be best for the ‘dependent’ one to go to a different school.

If you told the appeal panel that your child relied on her friendship group, then surely you can see they are not going to want to admit her. It would be horrendously unfair on the other children she ‘relies’ on.

Better for everyone that they are separated

Actually, we had a similar situation this year with twins, one with SEN. We read between the lines of the information that came from the primary school, and separated them between two different schools in the MAT

They are both thriving

OP, the bottom line is that it is necessary for you and your child to move on from this set-back.
That may sound harsh but by continuing to think about things in terms of getting what you and your child want, you are simply perpetuating the agony of the decision. As others have said things normally do right themselves and after a few weeks at school, there is no issues at all. I recognise that too many things are not normal at present but for the sake of your child you need to present as normal to her, so that she can start to move on.

OP I'm sorry that you didn't get the decision you wanted. However a lot of your language is catastrophising the situation. I'm not sure if this is how you are coming across to your dd, but if you are, then that won't be helping.

I only know of success stories where a student has started at a school they didn't want, and end up loving it. Now is the time to become positive about the school she will be going to, and equipping her with tools to build resilience.

There's no guarantee an established friendship group would be in the same class anyway. Most established friendship groups disperse in year 7.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply - yesterday was a rubbish day and I needed some time for it to sink in (plus deal with work etc etc). You're absolutely right that I need to focus on the school she's been given. It's actually the most in-demand one here so I know it could have been so much worse. The one we did want for her would have been so much better though, for reasons that there's no point going in to. The thing that i've been struggling with though is, as we are in Brighton, the emotional turmoil of this blasted lottery system. I know why it's done - the two most popular schools, that we are in catchment for, are right next to each other so for children in other parts of town they need to be given a fair chance of getting into a decent school. However, the thing i can't get past (at the moment!) is that even if distance was the main criteria for allocating places and we lived too far from the school we wanted, at least we would know in good time that we weren't in with a shot. Here, there's this false hope that you will be able to get the school you want for your child and there's nothing you can do about it.

I absolutely can acknowledge that I'm catastrophising right now. I just needed to hear just once that it will be ok . All her friends live close by so I know, if they all want to, that they can continue their friendship. I just can't bear seeing her so upset even though I know in my head that everything will turn out fine, that's all.

Her friendship group was barely mentioned in our original appeal documents (as i've read pretty much every thread on this subject on this site probably at least twice since March!), we only brought it up in response to one of their questions.

@Thischarmlessgirl - in hindsight we were probably relying too much on the appeal panel giving us even the tiniest benefit of the doubt as i've been told (unofficially) that CAHMS down here will probably take a year so that was never going to come through for us and we can't afford private anything at the moment. Her primary was downgraded to 'requires improvement' at its last full OFSTED specifically for how they deal with SEN, so with that and COVID/lockdowns, we were way too far behind where we needed to be.

I naively thought the panel would have at least considered what was best from our perspective but if they view things the same as @0None0 has said, my daughter's SEN issues were obviously viewed as an impediment to everyone else and she needed to be kept away from them as much as possible, irrespective of the effect on her. I think that's really sad if SEN children are viewed as problems for the other children who manage to deal with life fine, as opposed to being viewed individuals deserving their own consideration, I had no idea...

Anyway, onwards and upwards - I'd love to be able to say we still had the waiting list, but that's a lottery too so there's no chance she'll get picked. Bloody Brighton - don't come down here unless you have nerves of steel!!

thanks everyone

my daughter's SEN issues were obviously viewed as an impediment to everyone else and she needed to be kept away from them as much as possible, irrespective of the effect on her.

This is harsh and not what the PP said. The PP considers the effect "being relied on for everything" will have on the dcs that are being relied upon.

I didn't know anything about the Brighton lottery system. I'm off to research further.

It will be fine, and long term may benefit your dc. She can start somewhere new, a place where no one has any preconceptions about her. She can build a "new" identity and hopefully she will quickly find her tribe.

Talk to her but be positive about the new place. Contact them and ask for a 1:1 tour. We do this for all SEN/vulnerable children and I know it helps with the first day nerves because they have already been in the building.

Nobody called your daughter an impediment OP

Frankly, I’m sceptical about 0None0’s claims here. Both schools/LEAs for admissions and appeal panels work within rules-based systems and if two children meet the oversubscription criteria for a school, it’s hard to think of any circumstance where anyone could reasonably and legitimately “read between the lines” and send one elsewhere. And I very much doubt that the appeal was refused because the panel wanted to “save” the other child from being depended upon.

If I’ve understood correctly, OP wasn’t able to provide the kind of documentary evidence of her child’s needs that the panel was looking for. Panels don’t see any child or any child’s needs as an impediment, but panels first of all need to see evidence of what those needs are and then confirmation from a health care professional that this school is best placed to meet those needs.

As you say, OP, onwards and upwards.

Actually, we had a similar situation this year with twins, one with SEN. We read between the lines of the information that came from the primary school, and separated them between two different schools in the MAT

0None0 if this is true it sounds unlawful and leaves you open to being challenged.

Why would it be unlawful? Of course it isn’t

Outside of appeals places must be allocated in accordance with a school's admissions arrangements, which in turn have to follow the admissions code. Information from primary schools and reading between the lines should not be used as you suggest they have been. Not following the admissions arrangements or having admissions arrangements in breach of the admissions code are unlawful.

As Panelchair posted, appeals also have to abide by set rules. It would be unreasonable to read between the lines and make a decision to "save" one twin. You can't just allocate a school the parents haven't appealed for even if it is within the same MAT.

@10brokengreenbottles

Outside of appeals places must be allocated in accordance with a school's admissions arrangements, which in turn have to follow the admissions code. Information from primary schools and reading between the lines should not be used as you suggest they have been. Not following the admissions arrangements or having admissions arrangements in breach of the admissions code are unlawful.

As Panelchair posted, appeals also have to abide by set rules. It would be unreasonable to read between the lines and make a decision to "save" one twin. You can't just allocate a school the parents haven't appealed for even if it is within the same MAT.

You clearly don’t know anything about admissions in a MAT

To be fair I don't know anything about admissions protocol in a MAT but I do believe 'reading between the lines' and making assumptions of a situation and deciding on an outcome based on only assumptions really is very very unfair and not transparent at all!.

Admissions to schools within a MAT still have to comply with the admissions code and appeals code. Academies still have to adhere to their published admissions arrangements, and appeals panels are still supposed to be independent. They can't refuse to admit a child to one school and place them at another when the appeallant hasn't appealed for that school simply because they read between the lines and wish to "save" one twin from the other.

@10brokengreenbottles

Admissions to schools within a MAT still have to comply with the admissions code and appeals code. Academies still have to adhere to their published admissions arrangements, and appeals panels are still supposed to be independent. They can't refuse to admit a child to one school and place them at another when the appeallant hasn't appealed for that school simply because they read between the lines and wish to "save" one twin from the other.

We can admit them to any school we like, since legally all applications are to the MAT not to a specific school

Parents apply for a specific school within the MAT on the CAF. Each individual school must have their own admission arrangements that applicants are ranked against if the school is oversubscribed. Schools in the same MAT may have identical admission arrangements but applicants must be ranked against them for each individual school.

If a child qualifies for a place in must be offered. Children who haven't applied for a school can not be given places ahead of pupils who have applied even if they have applied for another school within the MAT.

I'm sure the admissions experts such as @PanelChair @admission @prh47bridge on here can explain more succinctly than I have.