Secondary School Appeal

[RCBOn]

Please can someone help with secondary school appeal. We are appealing on the basis of admin error / miscommunication.

-10 October: Contacted the admissions team and asked them if its acceptable to supply only the rental agreement before the deadline as we would not have last 3 months Gas / electricity bills as mandated on the website, response was - That's fine, we will work with you to gather all the remaining documents.

• Moved on 28th October and submitted rental agreement - 6 months contract
• 17th Nov: Admission team asked for 3 documents - standard document evidence list from website ( Rental agreement up to March 2022, Disposal of old property / no access and at least other two other documents out of DL GP Registration Usage bills etc.
• 19th Nov: we responded with what we had - DL, GP Registration, and reason why we can not rent our property - Had survey done and it required extensive building work and was worked upon by builder initiated in early Feb but delayed due to covid and the time the builders take to respond, plus the fact one of us were furloughed , we mentioned of our intent to extend the contract in shorter interval if possible.
• 14th Dec: Admissions Authority - Individual - She was not satisfied with the address evidence we submitted and asked for usage bills to satisfy address evidence.
• 15th Dec: we provided usage bills as requested in the same reply to her email
• 12th Feb: Admission Team generic email id not the Admission Team official who previously asked us the documents in December, responded to 19th November email mentioning acceptance of DL,GP but require Rental document up to Mar 2022.
• 17th Feb: our response was a big surprise to get it very last minute
• 17th Feb: Now Admission Authority - The official and not generic email id, responded with an apology that she then accept the evidence we sent through so far, and the admission team was not CCd.
• 17th Feb to 26thFeb: we didn't think we needed to provide anything more
• 26th Feb: Admissions team generic id - asked for a contract extension again at 15.30PM
• 26th Feb: we responded to check if there is a miscommunication and if this was going to affect our offer on Monday. Admission team official's email was on auto response on out-of-office and no response from Generic EMAIL ID in any form till March 9 on that.
• 1st March: Looking at the offer we assumed that you are waiting for contract extension document.
• We sent several email explaining all the previous communication and review and offer the place.
• 9th March kind of Authorative email, having gone through all communication and correspondence, we ask you to provide Disposal of old property document in addition to Extended contract agreement referring to November email which lists all the documents but not considering to mentioning above review in December or their address evidence acceptance email on 17th Feb. and for admissions purpose they will consider us from old address only till we submit further evidence, but they will be happy to review the situation if we provide further evidence in future.
• taking additional burden having to pay rent and mortgage, we took the risk to extend the contract till April 2022 in one stretch, and since we were in touch with letting agent after last month's email from admission team, we could now get the extended contract in couple of days and submitted but work on Previous property was ongoing, which the authority knew, hence we could not submit this before 15 April deadline.
• Building work was completed on 12th April and contract document signed with Agent for letting out property and a copy of this submitted to Admissions authority to show our intent and update on progress.
• We rent out the property on 28th April and submitted the Lease Agreement on May 4th and requested Authority to review the situation and offer the place.
• Now a standard response we are receiving from Authority saying DS is on Waiting list and that we have lodged an appeal will process that request accordingly.

SO, I am not sure if I fight my case based on the fact that they Confirmed our address evidence document as Acceptable so should have considered for first round allocation, and should been consistent with the review, as we missed out second round and third round as well.

DS is allocated a school place which is near our old property and 7 miles from current property. Whereas our first choice school is 100 feet away in catchment.

Any help and guidance is much appreciated.

I'm not entirely sure what has gone on, some of this is a bit unclear I'm afraid but the gist seems to be-

• you moved into a rental home pre application, and applied from that address.
• you own another home 7 miles away, that was neither sold nor rented out at the time of admissions closing.

Is the rental agreement you are referring to one for the house you are now in?

The LA have understandably asked for solid proof that the move is a proper one and not a temporary one to gain a school place. Any move where the previous home is fairly near, retained and not rented will ring lots of alarm bells.

A lot seems to hinge on exactly what was said in Feb; this
" 17th Feb: Now Admission Authority - The official and not generic email id, responded with an apology that she then accept the evidence we sent through so far, and the admission team was not CCd.

• 17th Feb to 26thFeb: we didn't think we needed to provide anything more"

doesn't make it clear as to whether the LA explicitly said they were happy and had everything they needed or they said they were happy with what they had so far but were awaiting more (the rental agreement). It reads a bit as if they requested a contract extension but you didn't supply this until April?

If you want to appeal on the grounds of an error, you will need to be crystal clear about what was asked for when, and what you supplied when.

@PatriciaHolm

Thanks for reply.

Yes, the first two statements are correct.

Documents I submitted for address evidence on 19.11.2020:

1. Driving Licence (Parent)

1. GP registration letter

1. Rent agreement reattached new place - 6 months ( supplied with the ONLINE application)

w.r.t us still holding ownership of / not rented out property at xxxx xxxx is because of outstanding work that needs to be done under the builder's warranty. As per the independent survey report , Extensive Remedial work ( Page 10 last Para and Page 8 first para of the survey report submitted to Builder - can supply a copy if necessary) need carrying out to comply with Building regulations.

The Builder visit and follow up actions were initiated in March but had to be stalled but completed recently in early October due to Covid-19.We are still chasing the builder ( Plot xxxx xxxx - [email protected]) to complete the review and supply us with an action plan and start the work which will facilitate us to rent this house and thereby extend the rent at xx xx xx xx. In the current scenario having gone through Furlough earlier this year, we will be treading on extremely thin lines having to pay mortgage and rent at both the places, hence extending the rental agreement in shorter segments as much as possible.
Please let us know if you need further information.

Admission official (personal email id) reply on 15/12-

Good Evening,

I am writing to advise that we are unable to accept the document you have provided for address evidence purposes.

Please send copy gas/electricity bill dated within last three months showing usage at the property. Please ensure you add your child’s/children’s name(s) and date of birth to the document or in a reply to this email.

Please can I request that this information be sent no later than 10am Wednesday 16th.

I Document submitted same day

Next reply from Admission team Till Mid Feb as a follow up email to Documents I submitted in November

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021, 17:13 Admissions Education, wrote:

Good Afternoon,

I am satisfied with the Doctor’s registration letter and Driving License.

Unfortunately, I will not be accepting the tenancy agreement as it needs to be until at least six months after 1 September 2021 (March 2022).

Kind Regards,
School Admissions & Transport Team

we replied with surprise to official and generic email id both, as to why they are replying to an email from November, there were further communication from admissions team in December, and we submitted address evidence as requested that time

Reply from personal email of Admission authority as below on same day,

Good Afternoon

I apologise for not getting back to you regarding the evidence I requested. I can confirm that what you sent through is fine and has been accepted.

Thank you
xyz official name

Reply from admission team on 26th evening
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, 15:19 Admissions Education, wrote:
Good Afternoon,

Please note that we still require the outstanding evidence.

Kind Regards,
School Admissions & Transport Team

Again a surprise for us and we expressed concern asking for immediate reply

Admissions Education
Mar 3, 2021, 5:43 PM*

Good Afternoon,

Our initial response on 18th November 2020 clearly stated the evidence we required.

Please note that until we receive the required evidence, we will continue to use your Milton Keynes address for admissions purposes.

We were upset why they are not referring to email correspondence from official but instead referring to earlier initial email only and asked to review the all the correspondence and offer the place

Admissions Education
Mar 9, 2021, 12:38 PM*

Good Afternoon,

Your address evidence and all correspondence has been reviewed and our response is set out below:

We recognise that you have not been able to let out your property in Milton Keynes due to outstanding building works, and that you are not in a position to extend the tenancy agreement. Unfortunately, we have no other option than to use your Milton Keynes address for admissions purposes.

We have had many parents in the past move into rental properties close to schools, then move back to the family home once a place has been offered. We endeavour to safeguard schools against this sort of action.

We will be happy to review the situation in the future, if further evidence is received.

Submitted the tenancy document for current property extending till April 2022 and explained the development at old property and the status of ongoing work.

WORK AT Old property completed on 12th April and property advertised for rent same day. We got tenant in at this property on 28th and submitted lease document for old property to show it is no more accessible to us on 4th May

We now asked to review the situation and offer the place

• Their response - Good afternoon

Thank you for your email.

We can confirm that your child is on the waiting lists for xyz School and 123 school. We will contact you on 27th May if we are able to offer a place at either of these schools. If we are not able to offer a place, waiting list positions we be sent out of 17 June and 1 July.

We note that you have lodged an appeal for xyz which we will process accordingly.

Kind regards

Why did you rent your original house out and move 7 miles away to a rental rather than selling and buying?

You have to go to appeal on the basis that you should have been considered under the rental address and that you have done everything that has been asked of you to supply requested documentation.
Whilst I agree with PatricaHolm that your OP is very confusing on some of the details, the LA does not seem to have been that helpful to you and some of their emails are not clear.
It is concerning to see a condition having been imposed that says you must have a rental agreement for at least 6 months after the 1st September 2021. That seems to be overkill on trying to stop people renting short term to get into a preferred school. In the actual regulations it is about where your child spends most of their nights at the point where you submit your application up until the date that that places are allocated.

Letting your property and renting a property only a few miles away but so close to the school of your choice is going to ring alarm bells. I'm assuming the whole letting and renting scenario is just for the purpose of getting in the school as there seems very little other reason to do it. I dont know about your appeal as I didn't really follow your timeline with regards which rental agreement they were asking for at which point. I would try to come up with a reason (other than getting in to the school) for your complicated housing situation otherwise I dont think your appeal will get far.

The requirement does seem onerous yes, but it's clear on the county website that that is what is required. I think this area is probably very hot on address fraud, as it is a grammar area where schools often have a catchment/address element as well as having to attain the pass mark.

I am guessing you moved right next door to a grammar school after knowing your DC had qualified.

I am sure your house repairs are genuine but come on. Instead of renting locally you decided to rent seven miles away rather conveniently 100 yards from the school on a six month contract.

You must surely see how alarm bells are ringing at the council and don’t feel this is genuine?

I'm sorry, but I agree. I don't think you'll win this one.

I think lots of people move into the area after exam results but not quickly enough to get a place in the first round - means that there is a lot of pressure on the few places that are available in later rounds - very risky strategy

Good God but if this isnt against the rules it should be.

I think the LA is pushing it somewhat by demanding that renters have an agreement extending at least 6 months beyond 1st September. I think that may be open to challenge, but I wouldn't raise that at appeal.

What you have going for you is that the emails from the LA are poorly worded and some of it suggests that they had accepted your rented address. That gives you an argument that they have said one thing and done another.

What you have against you, as other posters have pointed out, is that most people, looking at the information you have provided, will think you rented close to the school in order to get a place and that you intend to return to the house you own once the place is secured. Even if that isn't the case, the problem you have is that the LA is clear that they require a lease agreement on your rented property running until March 2022 and clear evidence that your old property is no longer available for you to live in. As far as I can see, you did not provide all of the required evidence until the end of April. That was after offers had been made so too late for them to take it into account. They therefore made an offer based on the property you own. The fact you would have got a place on national offer day if you had been able to submit the evidence earlier is irrelevant.

It is just possible that the appeal panel will think the emails from the LA showed that they had accepted your new address, so it is worth a try. But, based on the information you have posted, I think it is a very long shot.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate,
The property required lot of work to be done, we got it surveyed and 60 pages highlighting issues that need fixing. Knowing the issues We could not sell and pass on the burden. So decided to get it fixed before selling. Buying as you know, is a big task in itself, lot to research.. so didnt want to buy anything in a hurry.

@RCBOn but why would you choose that particular time to prepare to sell and then rent it out? If I was moving out for renovations in Y6 I would have rented local to the primary. I wouldn't have gone miles away.
The panel are going to think like that.

@admission,

Thanks for understanding! we were on one hand chasing the builder to fix the property, who were dragging feet, trying to avoid doing the work.
We have been asking the same question, why did they say they accepted the address evidence but changed at the last minute, but they haven't answered it directly but only referring to original email listing all the requirements.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate,

I am on the road all the time travelling nationally, my wife works in London so we always wanted house closer to school, so that DS can walk to school.

Hellocatshome

As I mentioned in above post it was practical and convenient for us to be near the school due to work reasons. Plus If I move say less than two miles I would get into catchment , if they want to raise the point that we moved only to get the seat they could have still said the same thing.

PatriciaHolm,

If our intention was to move back after seat allocation, then they still hold the authority to withdraw the seat.
Plus they did the review and based on our situation they did accept the address evidence .

Wearywithteens,

As posted above move of less than two miles would take us into catchment OR move of less than 500 meters would have got us seat based on distance going by previous allocation data.

So if I choose what would be convenient for my DS ( Walking everyday to school) while we parents are both out on work, I don't think that is poor thinking !

@Zodlebud

Any minimal move to south or west would have still got me in catchment or within distance allocation, Yes thinking what Admissions team would think, I should have moved away from school in North or East! but only make it 1 hour travel time each way for my DS , I don't think I wanted that for my DS.

So you owned a new build house, wanted to sell within the 5 or 10 year guarantee - 60 pages of issues Did you not discuss with Bovis just selling back to them?

@myrtleWilson

Yes that's correct, a nightmare new build experience! from so called reputed builder, Never thought that they would in million years agree to buy a house because we have issues. There was quite a big news with same builder four years ago , same development, leave apart selling back to builder, they were even not fixing the issues. From day one we had issues with major leaks, and never expected to see similar report for our property.

@prh47bridge

Thanks, that's good analogy, will help.

Agree, they have made rules for everyone, which we need to follow, that's fine. No issue with that and I wouldn't use that.

For people renting in for few months ago or longer could only supply their Usage bill alone and is acceptable ! but there can still be any unexpected events that they may have to move out.

People who bought the property don't have to show evidence that they will stay ! but there can still be any events that they may have to move out

But yes If someone recently moved in which Council doesn't have any issue with, which is valid, but they have to provide all documents for every possible scenarios!

For second para, reason for moving I have explained in reply to other posters, with both working parents with no other family support and who had to travel for day jobs, we all ways stayed close to school, so DS doesn't have to travel plus educate at a school with good performance, a grammar school. DS did dedicate 15 - 20 minute everyday when he could have spent it on screen and got through the test. As we have only one school in north of county we wanted to settle where the school is. Is that wrong? but if I am moving back after getting the seat that is wrong. One of us parent were furloughed due to covid situation, didn't know what to expect, but now we were paying rent as well as Mortgage so that was risky not knowing when builder finishes the work? so we we were extending contract in small lengths, which again we conveyed clearly in very first email to council.
In the worst case, if I was furloughed and builder didn't finish work, I would let council know that I cant afford and hence moving back, council as they have clearly stated, they still have authority to cancel the allocation.

agree that council have published requirements but provided my property was in normal condition I would have sold or rented it out straight away, but I gave them details of builder, and I also offered to submit the report if required, but they did fair review in December and only asked for Usage bill as an additional document to accept address evidence. Should they not have told me that they will only use my old address until I provide Contract extension and document to prove No access to old property, which they didn't and not even on 17th Feb, when official confirmed they accept the address evidence and expressing and expressed an apology for not coming back early. Does part of review not include working with parents to ask for more documents if required? why take 60 days for review, when they claim they would reply within 3 days but at the max. 10 days if they require further evidence or information.? why send communication from two different email id's following different threads , one saying they need document, other says they accept what we have supplied, first one comes back and says we still need pending document? so confusing and frustrating it was.

Regardless of the confusion......... you moved just three days before the admissions address cut off date and the building works were finished shortly after National offer day. The timing of it all is rather convenient.

Plenty of other children worked extremely hard to pass the Bucks 11+. Your son is no more deserving than any other. To me it looks like a deliberate ploy to try and get him a grammar place and I think it’s very clear the LA think the same.

I have none of the specialist knowledge that others here do, but, I would definitely find it 'odd' that you have chosen to rent out your original property, rather than sell it now the work is completed. That would suggest to me that there is a high possibility that you would move back in once you have a place at your preferred school. Why did you choose to rent it out rather than sell? Presumably, given your comments about the expense of paying both rent and mortgage, selling would have been the obvious choice, allowing you to purchase in your desired area and also showing the education authority that your move is genuine and not just a plot to gain a place at a particular school?