Secondary School Appeal

[RCBOn]

Please can someone help with secondary school appeal. We are appealing on the basis of admin error / miscommunication.

-10 October: Contacted the admissions team and asked them if its acceptable to supply only the rental agreement before the deadline as we would not have last 3 months Gas / electricity bills as mandated on the website, response was - That's fine, we will work with you to gather all the remaining documents.

• Moved on 28th October and submitted rental agreement - 6 months contract
• 17th Nov: Admission team asked for 3 documents - standard document evidence list from website ( Rental agreement up to March 2022, Disposal of old property / no access and at least other two other documents out of DL GP Registration Usage bills etc.
• 19th Nov: we responded with what we had - DL, GP Registration, and reason why we can not rent our property - Had survey done and it required extensive building work and was worked upon by builder initiated in early Feb but delayed due to covid and the time the builders take to respond, plus the fact one of us were furloughed , we mentioned of our intent to extend the contract in shorter interval if possible.
• 14th Dec: Admissions Authority - Individual - She was not satisfied with the address evidence we submitted and asked for usage bills to satisfy address evidence.
• 15th Dec: we provided usage bills as requested in the same reply to her email
• 12th Feb: Admission Team generic email id not the Admission Team official who previously asked us the documents in December, responded to 19th November email mentioning acceptance of DL,GP but require Rental document up to Mar 2022.
• 17th Feb: our response was a big surprise to get it very last minute
• 17th Feb: Now Admission Authority - The official and not generic email id, responded with an apology that she then accept the evidence we sent through so far, and the admission team was not CCd.
• 17th Feb to 26thFeb: we didn't think we needed to provide anything more
• 26th Feb: Admissions team generic id - asked for a contract extension again at 15.30PM
• 26th Feb: we responded to check if there is a miscommunication and if this was going to affect our offer on Monday. Admission team official's email was on auto response on out-of-office and no response from Generic EMAIL ID in any form till March 9 on that.
• 1st March: Looking at the offer we assumed that you are waiting for contract extension document.
• We sent several email explaining all the previous communication and review and offer the place.
• 9th March kind of Authorative email, having gone through all communication and correspondence, we ask you to provide Disposal of old property document in addition to Extended contract agreement referring to November email which lists all the documents but not considering to mentioning above review in December or their address evidence acceptance email on 17th Feb. and for admissions purpose they will consider us from old address only till we submit further evidence, but they will be happy to review the situation if we provide further evidence in future.
• taking additional burden having to pay rent and mortgage, we took the risk to extend the contract till April 2022 in one stretch, and since we were in touch with letting agent after last month's email from admission team, we could now get the extended contract in couple of days and submitted but work on Previous property was ongoing, which the authority knew, hence we could not submit this before 15 April deadline.
• Building work was completed on 12th April and contract document signed with Agent for letting out property and a copy of this submitted to Admissions authority to show our intent and update on progress.
• We rent out the property on 28th April and submitted the Lease Agreement on May 4th and requested Authority to review the situation and offer the place.
• Now a standard response we are receiving from Authority saying DS is on Waiting list and that we have lodged an appeal will process that request accordingly.

SO, I am not sure if I fight my case based on the fact that they Confirmed our address evidence document as Acceptable so should have considered for first round allocation, and should been consistent with the review, as we missed out second round and third round as well.

DS is allocated a school place which is near our old property and 7 miles from current property. Whereas our first choice school is 100 feet away in catchment.

Any help and guidance is much appreciated.

We moved to a rented house an hour away just before the primary school allocation deadline and had to provide a rental agreement that was at least a year long. It says clearly on the bucks council website that you need a lease 6 months beyond September, so I'm not sure why you didn't provide that in the first instance.

The reason you give re financial position re rental and mortgage - it reads to me that if finances were tough then you would move back into your old address. So you hadn't cut ties with your old property.

The bucks emails weren't great, but the info re lease is available for all to see online, so I think u are going to find it hard to argue the case that they didn't inform you of that in good time. Maybe better to pursue a late application?

The bit I think works against you is WORK AT Old property completed on 12th April and property advertised for rent same day. We got tenant in at this property on 28th and submitted lease document for old property to show it is no more accessible to us on 4th May

How does it make sense for you to own a house and rent it out, whilst renting your own place to live? The fact you aren't actually selling your old house looks unusual.

@Zodlebud
Thanks for expressing your views, but by no means I ever implied to say my DS deserved more.
Local LA does allow you to move even up to cut off date and work builder finishing was not in my control. I would have been the relieved person if they could have completed the work earlier so I could sell / rent it earlier. I supplied details of builder for LA to verify.

@Erictheavocado
Yes, that was the plan to sell it, we had the agent in december who also agreed that its better to sell it once work is complete. Regarding renting out after the completion of work, we were asked by LA to provide no access to property document either by leasing out or selling it, and they were happy to review, with timeline and allocation rounds missing out, it was quicker to rent out. Yes the plan is to sell and buy house near the school. It's just the dominos effect that started with us getting the survey report and ended up at this stage. Everything happens for a good.

@Gloschick

You are exactly correct we thought of this, if work was going to take long which we didn't had a clue or info from builder, which I was asking to builder to supply action plan, and if finances were going to get tough from other means like similar to recent furlough, we would have ended up either selling the property or moving back. But still let LA know about it and they had right to cancel the allocation. This exactly is zest of my first email to LA and they accepted it first time around.
Being consistent with the review would have helped.
First review they reviewed our situation and asked for usage bill as an additional document and they said they accept the address evidence.
Second review hours before the close of the day asked for Extended contract.
Third review after allocation day, now they asked for Extended contract plus No access to previous property document.
The time they took to come back after we submitted the evidence was around 60 days + which led us to believe, the evidence we provided was acceptable as they have a standard note which reads something like, they will come back in 10 days at the most if they need more document.
Thought about late allocation.. but data suggests the particular school hasn't had any late allocations in recent years as there were no vacancies it seems.

@TeenMinusTests,

Yes as I posted in reply to earlier posters, It was all happening so quick with deadlines, plus LA promising to review situation if we provide outstanding evidence, it was quicker to rent it out, as the agent suggested, we could get a tenant within first week if advertised for correct price and with property kept in such nice condition. The plan was to sell the property after six months of renting out, do shopping for house where we are living now and buy house in new build development.

@admission @prh47bridge

I have contacted Appeals Team and asked for advise on questions that I can put across to LA and official agreed that these are valid questions. Please can you suggest any additions or amendments to one listed below please.

• Why was the response time significantly higher than 10 days, around 60 days in some cases? Does that contradicts its own statement to return enquiry within 10 days and agree that this may sometimes may mislead the pupil in believing evidence to be acceptable?

• Does the LA agree the reviews should be consistent

• Can the address evidence which was reviewed and accepted once be ignored and not referred to in following reviews?

• Is it fair on Pupil to ask for further document hours before close of business before allocation day?

• Does the LA have rights to withdraw offer after knowing the pupil moved back to old address after offer was made

• In exceptional cases, with situation made aware of, could the LA have allowed Pupil to be included in First round of allocation from current address

• Does the LA not see that there is scope for confusion when using multiple email thread

Thanks all for your valuable inputs and views positive or negative.

I will come back and post after the appeal.

Is it fair on Pupil to ask for further document hours before close of business before allocation day?
Yes if you haven't provided everything requested before the original deadline (I will confess I'm a bit confused)
Does the LA have rights to withdraw offer after knowing the pupil moved back to old address after offer was made
Yes

In exceptional cases, with situation made aware of, could the LA have allowed Pupil to be included in First round of allocation from current address
No they have to follow their rules

@Cookerhood
LA have published list of standard docs for add evidence. If for any reason we can't provide any/some of them we need to contact them.They then review and advice corrective action, which in my case we did exactly that in November and they came back and asked for usage bills in December and confirmed address evidence as accepted in mid of February.
But came back again and asked for contract extension hours before close of the play on Friday before offer Monday.Which I couldn't have provided in two hours for the reasons I mentioned in very first email in November.

Gosh, this all sounds incredibly intense. Is it really worth the stress and angst? If places have already been allocated then they're going to need a lot of persuading to go over their numbers to admit your child.

My dd has received all her transition information, booked her transition taster days, is excited about getting uniform for her new school etc. Wouldn't it be better to get involved in planning for the school your child has been allocated and move on?

I can't make head nor tail of the detailed info you're posting but it sounds like a v dodgy deal tbh. I'd leave it be.

I would have thought an appeal will hinge on the usual argument - whether the advantage to your son of the school accepting him will outweigh any disadvantage to the school,. I presume you are trying to argue that he should have been given a place on March 1st? I think the whole story is very confusing and when you present your arguments you need to be clear. Reardless of what was said by the LA (& it does sound a little muddled), they will need to be convinced that you are not moving just to obtain the place. I think you could expect a fair bit of delving & scrutiny for the first 6 months of the next school year if he does get a place.
Where is he currently on the waiting list?

If places have already been allocated then they're going to need a lot of persuading to go over their numbers to admit your child.

All it needs is a successful appeal. If the OP wins her appeal the school must admit her child. All appeals are in a situation where the school is already full, so the appeal panel won't need any more persuading in this case than in any other.

I would have thought an appeal will hinge on the usual argument - whether the advantage to your son of the school accepting him will outweigh any disadvantage to the school

The OP can certainly strengthen her appeal by making that argument but, if she can convince the appeal panel that there has been an error which cost her child a place, arguments about prejudice will be irrelevant. I'm not convinced she can win on this ground but, given the poor and muddled communication from the LA, it is worth a try.

@nonamenoclue,
That's correct.
Don't have or had any issue with LA doing any type of scrutiny before or after allocation or through the term time, I had explained to them my situation and they always had the option of taking back the allocation.
I do not know how appeal works even if it comes out as LA's mistake? The paperwork that appeal team have sent shows LA had few admin errors and have allocated places after 1st March but strangely they haven't published the same data on Website!
The waiting list was 14, but that was from old address, do not know what is the current number.

@prh47bridge,
The OP can certainly strengthen her appeal by making that argument but, if she can convince the appeal panel that there has been an error which cost her child a place, arguments about prejudice will be irrelevant. I'm not convinced she can win on this ground but, given the poor and muddled communication from the LA, it is worth a try.

Just trying to understand from your point of view, how you are not seeing that there was an error from LA - what is it that I am missing here.

LA clearly states - If you are not able to provide this evidence please contact us immediately - for the documents we could not send, we provided explanation expecting LA to guide us or ask for more documents that could convince them of address. Which I presume they did / they should have - and asked for one more document , usage bills, which I submitted?? if anything more was expected or they could have been clearly stated as they did after 1st march , that until I submit other two documents they will consider old address for admissions purposes'

I didn't kind of understand when they said, we are happy to review the situation if you provide further evidence in future, was it, review the document and offer or review and put us on waiting list, which anyways they would have done. Reading their sentence it felt as if yes they see some miss communication and they are willing to consider.

Sorry, I didn't intend to take lot of your time, but if you can elaborate on your statement please.

The information on the LA's website is clear as to what documentation you must provide. As far as I can see you did not supply the required documentation until after national offer day. The LA has therefore not made an error in using the address of the house you own. Under their published admission information, they had no choice.

Having said that, the unclear communications from the LA have muddied the water somewhat so you may be able to win on the basis of a mistake, but it is by no means a clear cut case.

Given the importance
Given the slight complexity of your situation

I am surprised you didn’t ever pick up the phone at any point in proceedings and call the schools admission department

You can't call Bucks admissions department, only email.

@nonamenoclue

You can't call Bucks admissions department, only email.

The school admissions.

Very easy to do

@Egghead81,

They don't have phone number for Admissions Team, we can only contact them using contact us form or by email, must have sent numerous emails asking them to reply or call me on the number. They didn't.

You ring the school directly and ask to speak with admissions

It’s that simple

I did the same myself because like you - my situation was not clear cut

[quote RCBOn]@nonamenoclue,
That's correct.
Don't have or had any issue with LA doing any type of scrutiny before or after allocation or through the term time, I had explained to them my situation and they always had the option of taking back the allocation.
I do not know how appeal works even if it comes out as LA's mistake? The paperwork that appeal team have sent shows LA had few admin errors and have allocated places after 1st March but strangely they haven't published the same data on Website!
The waiting list was 14, but that was from old address, do not know what is the current number.[/quote]
Perhaps it would be a good idea to ask them what the current position is? Have they now definitely accepted your new address?

@Egghead81,

Ohhh dear !! We thought its LA that deals with admissions

Is this to AGS? Or SHF? or Royal Latin? If the first stay on the waitlist as there is usually some movement - I don't know about the latter 2. (I assume that they will now use your Aylesbury address as you have provided all the documents required.)

For those wondering why they moved - lots of people in Milton Keynes mistakenly believe they will get a place at a Bucks grammar when they won't. The distance required to gain a place has reduced dramatically over the last few years but still jumps around the last mile...so a tense wait for some people!