Best Senior School within 1.5 hours of London - WinCol vs Eton vs Westminster vs Harrow vs Wellington vs SPS vs KCS

[Neoton]

DS just received an offer from WinCol and he got in purely on merit from a state school with no connections. We are still waiting for the other schools we applied to to revert (Eton, Wellington) but I feel a debt of gratitude to mumsnet, as I spent long nights on hundreds of threads to get all the info together.

Our view of the top schools within 1.5 hours of London:

• WinCol has very strong academics across the board, both in humanities and STEM. For us the thing that set it apart is that the interview is truly about potential: 90 mins covering practically all subject areas. The results speak for themselves: leavers are 32% Oxbridge, 15-20% LSE+US unis including Harvard, Stanford, MIT and Georgetown. 9% medics, several recent Nobel laureate alumni too. The reputation is that it is less sporty, but if you dig deeper, you will find it offers lots of sports, and has some of the best squads in squash, fencing, sailing and even martial arts. We loved the boarding arrangements (dorms of 6 in the first two years, then doubles in Y3 and singles in Y5) and that there is a special almost family-like connection between the boys. The boys we met were intelligent, polite and relaxed, with a good sense of humour. Housemasters are truly amazing, motivating and simply excellent role models. Girls in 6th form from 2024 onwards. Probably the best choice for an academically gifted boy.

• Eton College is the most famous school in the league but not as academic as WinCol, 24% Oxbridge, 12% LSE+US unis, only 2% medics. Very strong in sports across the board, with some of the best facilities. The Achilles of Eton is its STEM offering (109th place nationwide) and single rooms for all years, which may or may not result in isolation for the less active, less connected. No shared study halls either. Boys are decidedly ‘colder’ than those at WinCol, the HMs we met were a bit in the extremes: either military like, or very soft. Boys only. Probably best for the academically able, sporty and robust boys, who can handle the single rooms, which limit the possibility of making friends to the sports fields, or the societies.

Wellington College, in our view this is probably the best managed school of the lot, but also the least academic somehow. Coed and offers nearly everything that the top schools do, without the baggage. Strong sports pedigree, some fancy ones too like equestrian and polo. If you dig deeper, however, you will find that WinCol actually dominates Wellington in most of the sports we were interested in (fencing, sailing, squash, martial arts) in spite of Welly having the most amazing coaches and facilities. Choice between IB and A-level. Excellent US uni admission results, including Princeton, Stanford and Yale. By far the most “fun” of all the schools, in my view. Shared dorms of 3-4 in Y1, singles in Y2-5. The Achilles of Wellington is in its academics: weaker in STEM, slightly lower A/A-levels and 11% Oxbridge rate, yet somehow they manage to churn out 5% medics and 12-28% LSE+US unis like the big boys. Very pragmatic: beautiful yet nonsense subjects like Latin are cut out, replaced by two compulsory modern languages. Winner of this year’s national debating contest. Less academic pressure than any other school on our list. An amazing school overall, but may be a bit too easy for teenagers to get distracted. Compared with WinCol, we felt that the kids seem to be a bit more wired and somehow trying too hard. Probably best for those who believe that teenage years must be enjoyed to their fullest, but don’t necessarily want to give up on their ambitions. A really cool, modern take on education.

• Day schools: St Paul’s, Westminster and KCS are the only ones that approach WinCol in terms of academics, also well balanced between humanities and STEM. 31% / 31% / 25% Oxbridge, 22% /15% / 20% LSE+US unis, 5% / 4% / 8% medics for SPS, WM and KCS respectively. Add Merchant’s Taylor to the mix if you already know at the age of 10 that your DC will be aiming for medics (6% of leavers) or economics (LSE 7%). Location for day schools will anyways matter more than anything else in my view, apart from ethos and personal impressions. DS was very keen to board, so we didn't apply to any of them in the end.

• Harrow School was quickly discounted in our books due to what we considered to be mediocre academics, a lack of contemporary alumni and a certain attitude which wasn’t for us.

Advice for parents looking at senior schools for the first time: there is not simple answer to the ‘best school’ and there are no shortcuts to doing your own research. A school which works for one child might not work for another.

For ref, in our case DS is a classic all-rounder, top of his class, loves all subjects but especially STEM, wants to be a doctor, grade 3 piano and guitar, very social, lots of energy, loves sports, competitive in tennis and judo, on the national hockey team. This list is thereby from his perspective, and might look completely different for others.

he got in purely on merit from a state school with no connections.

Countless, countless boys "with connections" are rejected by the most famous public school on your list every year. How have you not noticed this in the midst of all your research? And by what other criterion than merit (however judged) might any child from a state school get into a similar public school? The assessors are hardly likely to be measuring the length of applicants' Bentleys or number of inherited titles before offering places ... "Contacts" have nothing to do with it; parental optimism, determination, and organisational skills are what's needed. Along with a clever, enthusiastic child who's robust enough for the application adventure.

Probably best for the academically able, sporty and robust boys, who can handle the single rooms, which limit the possibility of making friends to the sports fields, or the societies.

You haven't understood this, at all. But each to their own.

Very pragmatic: beautiful yet nonsense subjects like Latin are cut out, replaced by two compulsory modern languages.

I feel rather sad for you ...

Congratulations to your son on his offer. I hope you'll be cured of your obsession soon. (It's true MN can be very helpful on this subject, if one has the fortitude to wade through the dross.)

I was coming on here to add another school which I think belongs on these types of list but which is often left off them - and at which my state primary DS also got a place 'purely on merit'. However, having read some of the guff in your post (as highlighted by @MayIDestroyYou above), I'm now going to keep it to myself in case you change your mind. Though you probably wouldn't - it has a flourishing classics department for a start, so clearly it's getting its academic priorities all wrong .

Neoton can you do a similar rundown for girls schools please :-)

@Neoton just ignore them. Thank you for your very helpful insight, it is great to hear after the process you have been through with your son. I have daughters but still read your post with interest, as there is overlap in Sixth Form, and always good to hear from people that have seriously researched and considered the schools. Your son looks like a very bright boy, best of luck!

grade 3 piano. feel sure this is what made the difference.

hope your son is very happy wherever he ends up. what if he ends up wanting to study classics at Uni. Will you cope??

A very thorough analysis @Neoton but just highlighting that the “best” schools aren’t always the right schools for a child. It sounds like you know your son well and Winchester will be a perfect fit, but did you look at less prestigious schools too? It’s very easy to get caught up in the most famous name, results or number of medicine places but they only tell part of the picture.

I comment because I found myself in a similar frenzy. Focusing on which would be the best possible school I could get my DD into. Turns out that actually all of these top schools had some sort of dealbreaker for us. Be it an inflexible boarding offering, not offering my daughters sport (it’s not a rare sport but not one played everywhere), or a location just that little bit too far away. Turns out the not quite so academic less prestigious school was actually the one of far better fit and we turned down a place at the school most people would give their left arm for.

So my advice to add to this is do thorough research but don’t ignore schools that don’t have quite as high exam results, 25% Oxbridge or a prestigious name. You might be quite surprised what you find.

Zodlebud do you have any tips on girls schools and coed schools please. And good questions to ask for moving at year 9. We are west midlands..

As the parent of another boy who has just been offered a place at WinColl, I find the OP's implication that places to non-state-school applicants are all achieved via "connections" pretty offensive to my own DS - who also gained his place "purely on merit" through his own efforts, untutored and with no specific preparation from his prep school beyond some very low-key 11+ VR/NVR practice, and not a "connection" in sight (in receipt of substantial financial assistance for school fees, and not related/known to anyone with clout!).

By all means celebrate your DS's success, OP, but doing so by devaluing the achievements of other children really isn't a good look.

Thanks for all the responses, I really wasn't expecting any. The idea was to express gratitude and share the results of what I would consider was a thorough research, especially with those who were unable to visit these schools due to Covid. State school reference was just meant to indicate exactly what you mentioned, that the selection process is a true a meritocracy, where performance matters more, than the length of the Bentley. So we're on the same page there I think!

We do love classics and for those going into law or medicine (likely DS but who knows) Latin is probably more essential. I am conscious however that we likely to be a minority, so I will stick with beautiful and amazing for most people. In a world of competing priorities, if law and/or medicine isn't on my DS's list, he is probably better off to learn a modern language in the same amount of time, which he can actually use. But I fully appreciate and respect that others may consider Latin and Greek to be essential for everyone, irrespective of future career direction. Which is what I meant by saying different horses for different courses.

Forgot to add that all schools have excellent music. WinCol is probably the best of the lot, but at these levels it really makes no difference in our view. What sets Wellington apart however is that has probably the best drama pedigree of the lot, so if your DS is flirting with media, then it must be on your list. Own TV studio and radio station too.

One more thing, regarding the quirky comments seen in many posts on MN. We tried to understand what these posts mean. What we realised was that schools which are branded as 'quirky' here on MN were somehow refreshing, with lots of intelligent humour and critical thinking. They were the ones where we thought the kids are allowed to have a personality (not trying to fit a run-of-the-mill profile) where you would really want to mix and learn new things. This is just our observation, may be different for others.

Sorry no daughters, so no insight into girls schools

@MrPickles73 - Bit too much of an open ended question there. Day school, weekly boarding, full boarding, distance you’re prepared to travel, activities and subjects that are important to your daughter. You can’t possibly start making shortlists until you have ironed that out.

@Neoton I disagree with much of your analysis particularly as you confidently present second hand mumsnet threads and opinions as facts, in some cases with quite bizarre results (drama, classics a case in point as pointed out by others above).

There is no "national debating contest". There are various competitions throughout the season and the most prestigious ones this year were certainly not won by Wellington. Eton is one of a small handful of very successful debating schools yet you don't even mention it.

What matters is that you've found a school where your clearly able son will thrive and be happy, but I do hope people don't read this and think you actually know what you're talking about. I'm just thankful we won't be treated to the girls' school equivalent...

No worries, we can agree to disagree.

Not trying to prove anything, just trying to help new parents here, as I still remember how difficult it was for us two years ago, when we started the school search, to see through the glossy brochures and groupthink. Must be even more challenging for new parents due to Covid restrictions.

What we can probably all agree in is different courses for different horses. Please don't take any of this personally, the above is my view and specific to our case, as I tried to indicate in my original thread and later too. Maybe I should have done it in bold

Not saying that debating is somehow less dominant at other schools, as for the other schools, it almost goes without saying. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESU_Schools_Mace There is of course daily Div at WinCol which sets it apart but I forgot to mention. Eton and all the others are excellent at what they do for the right boy, and it is great to have this sort of variety. The idea was to call attention to the fact that there is more to Wellington than league table results. Each of these schools are the best from a certain perspective, there is no clear winner and it is a very personal choice. Which is the way it should be.

Thanks all for the valuable insights, it is highly appreciated!

Just an aside, but the value of classics does not lie in whether or not you can 'use' it. It's a superb academic discipline which, like the majority of subjects for the majority of students, gives mainly skills rather than content. Many, many people don't actually use the content of their languages, or their sciences, or even their maths, in their eventual careers. It's mainly about skills and ways of learning/thinking, and classics is brilliant for that.

I'm glad you are happy with the school you've chosen for your son.

Having also researched many of the schools on your list recently, I think you have got your Oxbridge numbers rather wrong though. Not that I think Oxbridge success is the be all and end all, because you seem to have based your assessment of the various schools academics mainly on them.

Also I can confirm that Latin, whilst a rigorous and valuable academic subject in it's own right, was absolutely no use to me in my law career.

Also, maybe a bit early to be deciding that your DS is 'likely' to go into law or medicine?

Notmynom

Fully agree, we are making this decision in imperfect world for a 10 year old child. Many things will change, we're just making our bets here. My research covers a two year period, so indeed the Oxbridge numbers may be a year or two out of date

I should add the sources: anything and everything we could find Tatler, GSG, STEM ranking, mumsnet, whichschooladvisor, books/articles on these schools, school websites, alumni lists, Nobel laureate lists, impression during school visits, talking to parents with kids in those schools, impression during interviews, etc.

We also filtered out a few excellent schools at an early stage, which we felt wasn't the best fit for us due to various reasons, but should normally be on your list like Charterhouse, Sevenoaks, Rugby, Brighton, etc

Neoton, you seriously factored the number of alumni who are Nobel Laureates into your school decisions...?

@Neoton - whilst I am fond of MN I wouldn't place too much weight on it as a source. A bit like citing Wikipedia in a dissertation 😉

I have DC at one of the schools you've 'researched' and your stats relating to it are incorrect.

And I think Latin is a fabulous subject. Academically rigorous and leads to a love of language and history.

Well, then the sources are off or a touch dated. Stats are mostly from GSG, which doesn't run reviews for all schools every year, but I wasn't that interested in annual variations.

Clearly I didn't rely on MN for any of the hard data. It was a smaller part of my school search, but very useful for the 'impressions'

Hope this helps someone.

@HereIAmDontTreadOnMe

Neoton, you seriously factored the number of alumni who are Nobel Laureates into your school decisions...?

Let's just say it was column CP in my Excel, as in column no 71 You are absolutely right, it's not the be it all, end it all. But I was curious nevertheless, and since the data was there I added it. Who knows, may be useful one day.

@neoton I'm not being funny but one of my criteria is observing the children and parents and getting a sense of whether it feels like they come from a similar place (mindset) to us. On that basis I'm ruling out WinCol 😂

Is this real?

National hockey team? The trials etc for that don't usually start until Y10 at the earliest.

[quote LondonMummer]@neoton I'm not being funny but one of my criteria is observing the children and parents and getting a sense of whether it feels like they come from a similar place (mindset) to us. On that basis I'm ruling out WinCol 😂[/quote]
Don't be too hasty, LondonMummer - the OP isn't exactly typical of the WinColl parents I've met, thank goodness.