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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Year 9 Options and EBACC

50 replies

PoorMansPatButcher · 22/04/2021 15:36

Hi all, has anyone successfully been able to swap their child's options pathway from pathway 1 to pathway 2. My son has categorically said he does not want to go to college or university and would prefer pathway 2. I emailed the school explaining this and I had a rather brusk email back explaining he has to the EBACC and that's that! After shcool he would prefer a job or apprenticeship as he loves tools and doing things with his hands. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

OP posts:
honeybuns007 · 22/04/2021 15:43

As far as I know pathways are fixed. But I have no idea why

Original poster
PoorMansPatButcher · 22/04/2021 16:14

Thanks honeybuns007. I have a friend who is a deputy head teacher in a secondary and she said the pathways are not fixed. I really want a meeting with school. I have emailed them and still waiting a reply.

OP posts:
DustCentral · 22/04/2021 16:21

Pupils change all the time at my secondary. A decent school should be able to sort this. Ask for a meeting with the head of curriculum. Usually it’s a deputy head but may vary.

Original poster
PoorMansPatButcher · 22/04/2021 16:32

Thanks DustCentral. I am on this.

OP posts:
ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 22/04/2021 16:35

My ds is planning to do A-levels but not doing EBacc since he struggles with MFL because of his dyslexia. School have been absolutely fine with that and actually recommended that he didn't do an MFL.

How does Pathway 1 and 2 vary? Do kids not move between them?

TeenMinusTests · 22/04/2021 17:12

'pathway 1 and pathway 2' are a made up thing for your own school.
Not all schools follow predetermined pathways, DD's comprehensive certainly doesn't.

What is the difference between options in the 2 routes?

Kick up a fuss and request to do the other combination if you really feel it is in his best interests.

TeenMinusTests · 22/04/2021 17:13

You don't need EBacc for A levels, nor for university.

Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow · 22/04/2021 17:21

What a child wants at y9 could be completely different to what they want at y11, 12 or 13.
My son wanted to give up french , he wasn allowed to and now he is about to go to uni to study languages.

His best option at this point is to keep everything as broad as possible as this is what will give him choices later.
No apprenticeship will reject you because you did gcses in history or geography or french or science .

DustCentral · 22/04/2021 18:27

@Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow

What a child wants at y9 could be completely different to what they want at y11, 12 or 13. My son wanted to give up french , he wasn allowed to and now he is about to go to uni to study languages.

His best option at this point is to keep everything as broad as possible as this is what will give him choices later.
No apprenticeship will reject you because you did gcses in history or geography or french or science .

But equally no year 9 child should be forced to take a subject they truly dislike. DD gave up Spanish against the general consensus/advice in her Y9 and was never happier and ended up thriving and excelling in the subject she took instead. That swapped subject may now be her career choice too but had she been forced to do ebacc that wouldn’t have been possible.

Broad education broadly fits most children... but NOT all children and the school should be able to easily sort that. At the very least a conversation needs to be had with options discussed.

Berolloreb · 22/04/2021 21:29

Pathways are a made-up construct by your school (and many others). Our school allows a free choice of non-core subjects and somehow the world doesn't fall in.

lanthanum · 22/04/2021 21:34

At a guess, at this school, all pupils who are capable of getting the EBacc (5+ in the relevant subjects) are put on pathway 1 and required to do the subjects needed for getting the EBacc, and those who are unlikely to get the grades are on pathway 2 and allowed more choice.
The EBacc matters not one jot for the individual pupil, but is one of the measures schools are judged on. Many schools are content just to "encourage" pupils to take the EBacc subjects, but some (perhaps particularly if they are under scrutiny by Ofsted) enforce it.

If he's likely to get above average grades for the school, you could maybe threaten to move him to a school that will allow him to do the subjects he wants - they might then realise that will not only be one fewer EBacc, but a drop in their Attainment8 score too.

towers14 · 22/04/2021 21:46

My son was allowed to swap to Open from ebacc. He really hated Spanish and was clearly his worst subject. After a Summer of me trying to persuade him to stick with ebacc ,as soon as he started Y10 it was obvious he would struggle with Spanish, I was ready for a 'fight' but school just said ok. Changed to IT which he loves and is going to do an A level in this in Sept.

clary · 22/04/2021 22:20

Yh as others say, pathways are made up by the school. And you can still go to uni without the ebacc.

OP what subjects does he want to do and what are they saying he must do?

A range of subjects is a good idea imo but I can't see the point of forcing students to study a language if they really don't want to and would do better at another subject.

If I were you Op I would push on this one. If he gets a 3 in French but would get a 6 in DT then it has to be a better option.

Comefromaway · 23/04/2021 13:02

With regards to options I found a useful mantra was to have a list of preferred subjects and decide which was negotiable and which was non negotiable.

So for dd she wanted to take RS, Music, Computer Science, Drama & Music. Of those she felt that Music & RS were non negotiable, if she couldn't take them she would change schools. Drama & Computer Science were negotiable. Her school didn't offer Computer Science in the end and Drama clashed with another subject so she didn't take them.

She knew that she absolutely didn't want to take Art. If she'd have been forced to take art she would have changed school.

TattyDevine · 23/04/2021 17:16

Can someone wise come on here and tell me that the world won't cave in if my son doesn't take German.

I keep hearing things about Russell Group universities but even UCL won't reject them for not having done it.

He wants to do separate sciences and computer science instead.

He was going great guns with German but the mask thing in class and missing the best part of a year has made it a less desirable option. I know we could take him to Berlin and there's all sorts of resources online but it's really down to what he likes doing isn't it and he says that's science. It's a LOT of science though.

Shit help I think I'm freaking out over something I shouldn't...

mumsneedwine · 23/04/2021 17:30

@TattyDevine no university requires a language. No university gives 2 hoots about the EBAC. UCL say you have to sit a language model in first year if don't have one and that's the only mention made of it anywhere in UK. Choose subjects you will get best grades in as that's what counts.

TattyDevine · 23/04/2021 17:34

[quote mumsneedwine]@TattyDevine no university requires a language. No university gives 2 hoots about the EBAC. UCL say you have to sit a language model in first year if don't have one and that's the only mention made of it anywhere in UK. Choose subjects you will get best grades in as that's what counts.[/quote]
Thank you so much! I just needed to hear this from someone before I press the approve button. I'm a bit new to this and they choose their options a year early at the school he's at plus they've been locked out for nearly a year so it feels like yesterday he started secondary and now they are talking about GCSE's. I actually just had a weird little cry, I think I"m losing the plot but I feel much better after reading your post. I think the schools make a bit more of it than there is. Even my husband told me to get a grip and that they removed something about EBAC from the Government website recently or something. Phew.

mimofboy2 · 23/04/2021 17:35

@lanthanum

At a guess, at this school, all pupils who are capable of getting the EBacc (5+ in the relevant subjects) are put on pathway 1 and required to do the subjects needed for getting the EBacc, and those who are unlikely to get the grades are on pathway 2 and allowed more choice. The EBacc matters not one jot for the individual pupil, but is one of the measures schools are judged on. Many schools are content just to "encourage" pupils to take the EBacc subjects, but some (perhaps particularly if they are under scrutiny by Ofsted) enforce it.

If he's likely to get above average grades for the school, you could maybe threaten to move him to a school that will allow him to do the subjects he wants - they might then realise that will not only be one fewer EBacc, but a drop in their Attainment8 score too.

This is right, schools are strongly encouraged to get students doing the ebacc as it is an indicator of performance. Many have started to move away from it though as forcing students to do subjects they don't enjoy often leads to lower grades.

I would look at what subjects he wants to do then speak to the head of year and see if there is wriggle room.

PresentingPercy · 23/04/2021 18:15

Yet another thread full of DC who refuse to continue with MFLs. What is happening in this country where we value languages so little? Every decision revolves around dropping MFL? Why can the Dc not manage it? We are a poorly educated country when climates to other nations who see language learning as vital.

PresentingPercy · 23/04/2021 18:16

when compared to other nations...

Comefromaway · 23/04/2021 18:20

Perhaps rather than critisising the children who know they will be judged purely on grades we should instead focus on the appalling MFL learning and assessment methods in the UK.

My dd got a worse French grade than all her other subjects not because she’s not capable but because she has auditory processing issues and struggled to decipher the recording in the exam. A boy who lived in France for 3 years was marked down for speaking French too well (he used colloquialisms).

Comefromaway · 23/04/2021 18:40

And if I remember correctly from the numerous other threads where you’ve made this point, your own children are naturally academic and privately educated.

Those of us with children of a more vocational leaning just need them to get the right number of passes in the correct number if GCSEs in order fir them to progress.

Or even those who are academic may wish not to risk a poor GCSE grade in a subject they struggle with, on their university application.

mumsneedwine · 23/04/2021 18:47

The new MFL exams are ridiculously hard that's why kids are dropping them. The old ones were a memory test, these ones will lead to better language skills but worse grades. As students are up against native speakers and students who have 4 kids in a class - rather than 20+ so too little support. Better to get a good grade in something you enjoy.

clary · 23/04/2021 19:08

@comefromaway I would mark someone down for using colloquialisms, but only the first time and it would be a tiny element.

I am sorry your DD struggled with listening, but again, it us only 25% of the mark. We do neec to do more to support ime, for listening especially, eg students in small rooms on their own, perhaps with headphones or other accommodations. But I do agree, while I would happily teach a keen student who would do well to get 4 (and remember MFL exams are tiered, with the F tier very accessible) I don't see the point of forcing a disaffected Student to take MFL if they would do better at and enjoy another subject.

mumsneedwine · 23/04/2021 19:42

@clary I admire MFL teachers so much. The changes you've had to deal with and the levels you now need to get kids to so they can achieve the high grades. We don't advise taking a language if are going to do foundation if you are capable of getting higher than a 5 in another subject. Which is sad but getting them the best grades possible has to come first.
My French O level still comes in useful at times.