Year 9 Options and EBACC

[PoorMansPatButcher]

Hi all, has anyone successfully been able to swap their child's options pathway from pathway 1 to pathway 2. My son has categorically said he does not want to go to college or university and would prefer pathway 2. I emailed the school explaining this and I had a rather brusk email back explaining he has to the EBACC and that's that! After shcool he would prefer a job or apprenticeship as he loves tools and doing things with his hands. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

I think Dd2 would say she wasn’t academic. Better at art. Unfortunately universities are full of MFL privately educated students because too few schools and parents care about MFL. With notable exceptions obviously.

However, why is it MFL that is ditched? I can see some DC are not suited to it for SEN reasons but everyone else? For what it is worth, plenty of DC find 3 sciences and maths bloody hard. No giving up with these subjects though.

But universities don't care about a language (whether that's important is another matter). So why take something you find hard when you can get a better grade at art ? Half our Oxbridge successes this year don't have a language.

@PresentingPercy

I think Dd2 would say she wasn’t academic. Better at art. Unfortunately universities are full of MFL privately educated students because too few schools and parents care about MFL. With notable exceptions obviously.

However, why is it MFL that is ditched? I can see some DC are not suited to it for SEN reasons but everyone else? For what it is worth, plenty of DC find 3 sciences and maths bloody hard. No giving up with these subjects though.

There's plenty of 'giving up' with science. Most kids choose the combined option, rather than separate.

And you can't just 'give up' with maths before GCSE, as you well know.

Playing devil's advocate (because i do agree with most here) universities don't care about science either. Lots find physics hard yet cannot drop it. I'm not saying they should but I do see PP's point.

@christinarossetti19 combined is still all 3 sciences and gets you 2 GCSEs. Lots hate it though and it's hard to keep them motivated. But it's compulsory so we do our best to make it fun. And some of our brightest kids take it as they want to do other things - still get 99 and go on to do science A levels.
I personally think it's a shame the FCSEs were dropped as they gave a language qualification to everyone in year 9.

@clary oh I agree !!! A language is much more useful than some science. My life would be so much easier if I only taught students who had chosen science rather than having to teach all of them 😊

PresentingPercy thanks for your comment, it's really good to hear all the different views on this, and I think to an extent that's what was concerning me about my son no doing a language. I am from Australia, and if I'd known I'd end up here in Europe, I would have tried harder at a MFL, instead I did Latin, which is great but I'm sure you'll agree not much use, though I'm fluent in BORIS!

So my son got off to a flying start with German in Year 7, (September 2019). He was put into top sets, as he is in maths, and that's the way they do it at his school, with the language department contacting me within a few weeks saying that he had been a student identified as having a flair for languages and would he like to take part in a local scheme where you go to a private school once a week after school and learn latin as well, with a view to possibly doing it at GCSE level.

All going swimmingly well when lockdown happened in March 2020 as you know.

He has carried on doing German "online", and can churn out as many worksheets as you like with the verbs and the nouns and the vocabulary all fine.

But in GCSE he will have to speak it to someone, in an exam setting.

At parent teacher night (a 4.5 minute online thing) I spoke to his teacher, who had at that point known him for approximately 11 weeks of sporadic in and out of lockdown learning. She said she hadn't really heard him speak or interact, and that there was now a mask mandate and she couldn't be sure when it would end, and that unless he had a burning desire to do it then he shouldn't.

I told him that if he wanted to do it, burning desire or otherwise, he should, because we could overcome the problems of masks in class and lockdowns and take him to Germany and get him a tutor and basically throw some money at the problem if there was one - as well as make sure the school do what they can to catch him up. But he wanted to do sciences, as well, and there are only so many options.

In the end, the emphasis is on what they feel passionately about, and at the moment that seems to be science, and that will never be viewed badly when applying to do A levels, or anything else for that matter, unless you flunk it of course.

Currently, I am learning French. There are apps, there are apps where you can watch films with subtitles, without, or with other cue words. There are amazing, amazing podcasts. And when lockdown ends, there are weekend mini breaks you can go on to boost your learning. For some reason, Emily In Paris wasn't that much help but it looked pretty.

The point I am making is, I guess, if you want to learn a language, you can do it alongside your other interests, or when school is over, or never, if you don't want to learn a language. Also, he never chose German, it was bestowed upon him due to which "population" of the school he was in. That's a bit sad in my opinion, but it's a large school and I don't know how else they could swing it.

That's a long post, but I wanted to point out the issues that children from this intake are facing with regards to two lengthy lockdowns and now with a mask mandate in classrooms, which has no end date, and a looming GCSE options deadline.

Hence my mini meltdown this afternoon! :-)

MFL teachers must have an easy life then!!! Of course if Oxbridge insisted on a MFL, it would be a different matter. I think it is a shame that we do not value a broad education.

My daughter is currently learning German. Independently whilst studying a dance diploma. She’s doing it because she knows a lot of performing jobs are in Germany. If schools could accommodate non examined language learning that would be wonderful. But the current system prioritises results over everything. Not enough time and not enough money.

Ds had to change schools after year 8. He’d been doing ok at Spanish in his old school and loved speaking it but he couldn’t pick a German up from scratch in year 9.

I don't know whether they have an easy life, PresentingPercy, or whether his one is seeking one, or what. But I do know it's never too late to learn a language, and now I have clarification on him not cutting off his options with regards to the next step, that's a win.

In an ideal world, the school would not have shut for the best part of a year and he'd be making the decision between language and separate science with that perspective. But my science, whilst sound, is not enough to build a time machine or parallel universe.

No argument from me @PresentingPercy . I think it's a shame too. But it's the current reality that Unis don't need it, they need as many good grades as possible, so that's what we need to aim for. We have to play the game.
Although I wouldn't say MFL teachers have it easy at all - we have 84 students taking one with classes up to 28. All want good grades.

yeah I agree @PresentingPercy, it is a shame a broad education isn't valued more.

As for MFL teachers having an easy life, well...swings and roundabouts I guess. A lot of schools insist students take MFL GCSE, as we can see, so that's tough if you are faced with a class of unwillingness.

Whereas they have to do maths and English, so at least you can remind them of that when they moan. Science is tricky as schools insist on it but yes, it's not needed later (unless you want to be a primary teacher).

But easy life - hmmm when you are standing in front of a class of abusive and badly behaved year 8 or 9 students trying to get them to learn German "but I'm not doing this next year anyway miss so why should I bother?" yeah not so much of the easy.

Thank goodness then for KS4 classes of students who want to be there, at least (if that is in fact what you have).

Meet with the Head of year or head if needed. My dd was in the ebacc cohort shr has dyslexia and struggles with written French, English too but she has to do that. We met with the head and told them that pushinghe to to French would be detrimental to har future as she was unlikely to get more than a 4 but was on target for 7/ 8 in history and geography. A 4 would pull down her grade average and effect 6th form entry. They couldn't really argue with us and no French. She remains in top sets for everything apart from English where she's second top. A language is not right for every child

OK I can't spell tonight either

I don't think you can solve the ills of MFL teaching in England by forcing pupils to take one for GCSE.
It needs to start much lower down at about year 3.
Decent teaching by specialists for more than 1 hour per week at junior level, would then mean pupils starting y7 with a much better grounding and then they can go on to succeed at secondary.

Then you need maybe to have some consistency in areas as to what subject is taught at primary to the one at the main secondary school. So pupils don't spend 4 years on French only to have to switch to German (which will be disheartening to the less able.) Perhaps by giving the secondary schools remit over the primary (ie they provide the teachers).

Agree also having 'native speakers' taking GCSEs meant for English speakers, and graded on a curve is going to be off putting for some.

I speak as a parent with 2 DDs, one of who did 2 MFL for GCSE, and the other whose particular SEN mean that learning a language was an entirely fruitless adventure.

ps. If you are going to insist on a 'broad education' then as well as an MFL you had better throw in a creative arts and a tech too...

@TeenMinusTests

I don't think you can solve the ills of MFL teaching in England by forcing pupils to take one for GCSE. It needs to start much lower down at about year 3. Decent teaching by specialists for more than 1 hour per week at junior level, would then mean pupils starting y7 with a much better grounding and then they can go on to succeed at secondary.

Then you need maybe to have some consistency in areas as to what subject is taught at primary to the one at the main secondary school. So pupils don't spend 4 years on French only to have to switch to German (which will be disheartening to the less able.) Perhaps by giving the secondary schools remit over the primary (ie they provide the teachers).

Agree also having 'native speakers' taking GCSEs meant for English speakers, and graded on a curve is going to be off putting for some.

I speak as a parent with 2 DDs, one of who did 2 MFL for GCSE, and the other whose particular SEN mean that learning a language was an entirely fruitless adventure.

ps. If you are going to insist on a 'broad education' then as well as an MFL you had better throw in a creative arts and a tech too...

100% agree with all of this. Especially the arts & tech too part.

My DD had no MFL teaching at primary but has a degree in it. Every single one of her privately educated classmates had done French at prep school. They did not go on to be very keen on languages either.

It was tongue in cheek regarding an easy life!

I see all the time on other threads that DC who spend all their time with Spanish relatives, or where parents a bilingual, do degrees in those languages. They are already fluent in them.

Other dc are at a disadvantage. Especially people who cannot afford holidays abroad. I would appreciate a much more level playing field. Schools and universities just want the high results but do not recognise that some DC have to work a lot harder than others. Why not give DC extra weighting for no prior knowledge at 11? I had no idea DD was good at MFL. We were astonished when the MFL teachers spoke to us. No parental help at all. Others had all the help in the world. So I can see why pupils get despondent.

no year 9 child should be forced to take a subject they truly dislike.

if we would go with what one of my teens dislikes they would only do pe and art...
I strongly believd that for most dc a broad education is beneficial.

@redcandlelight

no year 9 child should be forced to take a subject they truly dislike.

if we would go with what one of my teens dislikes they would only do pe and art...
I strongly believd that for most dc a broad education is beneficial.

I meant dislike as in, hates, is bad at, and has another subject they are passionate about in its place. Should you force a language on a child if they truly are bad at them and dislike them, when another option that they are good at and passionate about is available, just to say they’ve had a ‘broad’ education. Broad is a matter of opinion and DD is top of the class in the tech subject she was then able to take. I’m not saying year 9 children should only take what they want as that’s ridiculous and of course there are compulsory subjects. However, if languages are truly disliked and giving poor results, there is nothing wrong with changing to an arts or tech subject instead. Broad education is not broad if it forces one set of parameters to fit all children. Broad education should encourage interests in the arts, vocational subjects and tech skills. Sticking to the ebacc “academic” route only is not broad in my opinion.

It's interesting the thoughts about them not studying subjects they dislike at year 9.

My son is only going into year 9 in September but this particular school has them choose their GCSE options now as they find that by not having children studying subjects they dislike at year 9 level, they do not suffer the discord that is sometimes experienced at this age, and to study 4 options over 3 years for a wider breadth of study.

It’s not broader to drop subjects. At one point Ofsted were not happy with a broad education only being studied for 2 years. I agree with them. 3 years removes less interested dc for longer and allows for slower teaching and repetition. It’s all about results. Bright dc suffer though. They could do more subjects for longer and some enjoy all subjects!

Someone needs to investigate why dc hate subjects when other dc dont and will try. They cannot drop everything they hate. Some would have 0 subjects left.

3 years of GCSEs teaches the gcse syllabus. Few schools do extra.

It's allowed very results based. And they get amazing results, this school, so it is what it is I guess!

It is, not it's allowed 🤨😜

In my school the children are allowed to change pathways if the parents request it.