Advice on secondary school QE barnet vs Westminster school

[toguptasarika]

We have offers from both. Can you please let us know which is a better option for my son? Specifically in terms of maths, science, computer science, music, debate, personality shape up - which school can give him even the huge advantage over the other. Please assume for this discussions sake, our Affordability and Distance to school not be considered.

Almost impossible for anyone to have had direct experience of both to offer you a comparison. As you know they are two of the top schools in country. Slightly shocked that you are holding places at both this late in the day though!!

@LondonMummer Why are you shocked? Could easily be an offer from one during the first round that was accepted and now, later, a waiting list place for the other has come up - voilà 2 places to consider now and with no malice behind mind whatsoever.

Also "huge advantage" is a strange ask. Presumably you have checked out both schools before getting to this point. Both offer exceptional teaching to exceptionally bright boys. QE has a reputation for being intensely pressured whereas Westminster is more about "loyal dissent" and teaching around the subject. Which educational environment appeals to your son the most?

Both are top boy schools but different in a lot of ways. Is it fair to say that the two schools will both get their boys to achieve top grades, but their world views and way of thinking would not be the same?

QE Boys is an unashamedly STEM focused grammar school as opposed to Westminster where there is a lot more variety so it strictly depends on what you as a parent value more or should I say which environment you think will benefit your DC more.

How does way of thinking changes with school if both are very academically focussed and high on league tables?

@toguptasarika , you decide. Like all of the rest of us who have to make choices (state and private) as to which secondary we think might best suit our DC. Academics are a consideration, as are sports provision, distance, your gut feel about the school/fit for your DC etc etc...

If money is not a consideration then I think Westminster. Though facilities are excellent at QE, it can't match top indies.
QE will be more academic and high pressure environment. It's getting insanely competitive to get in.
Well done to your DS for securing place at both schools as their exam pattern are so different.

Is QE a lot more high pressured than Westminster and why would that be? Surely workload at both schools would be comparable if both have their pick of brights boys at entry?

@Abitofaproblem

Is QE a lot more high pressured than Westminster and why would that be? Surely workload at both schools would be comparable if both have their pick of brights boys at entry?

Grammar schools on Mumsnet have a reputation of being hothouses and QEboys being a Top2-3 Grammar in the country fits perfectly into that description. Westminster sends twice the number of students QEboys sends to Oxbridge yearly whilst also sending a chunk to the ivy league so I certainly will not describe them as being less Academic.

I agree though, Westminster's extracurricular activities and facilities are superior to QEboy's. That's hardly surprising however considering one will cost you 40,000 a year whilst the other is free.

How many apply to QE per place nowadays? I didn't think it was that bad ...

@Moominmammacat 2900+ for 192 places I heard

For QE selection, there are close to 30 dc on every marks (towards the cut-off) which is unusual to any school I know of.
There are few factors which contribute to Westminster sending so many students to Oxbridge. It gets a large number of such candidates in sixth form. The students at Westminster take varied subjects for University unlike QE, which is heavily STEM oriented due to subject selection by it's students (which is not a good thing). Oxbridge Univ. do a relative evaluation of how a particular student performed compared to other students in that particular subject in that school. This causes some excellent students to not qualify for Oxbridge. It's sad to see hardly 1/2 students opting for competitive courses like Computer science/Law in Westminster.
Though the kind of exposure one can get in Westminster can't be matched in QE. Diversity is of concern. It works fine for south east asian families but not for all.

Westminister.

If money is no object I’d go for Westminster for the breadth and variety of pupils and subjects

Distance is also a factor - how long will his commute be?

Are posters not concerned about the current news about top private schools including Westminster?

@Abitofaproblem

Are posters not concerned about the current news about top private schools including Westminster?

No

If you think it only applies to private schools you are utterly deluded.

Westminster. Similar position a few years back but some worry about the fee. never regret.

Commute is an hour for Westminster and 45 min for QE. What worries me that we do are not overdoing than what is needed. To be honest i am comfortable with DS academics as his work ethos are impeccable. I am concerned if this kind of money worth paying for personality , character, contact development or these are just attributes which you can never see tangibly.
We can pay fees with some stretch and not anle to decide if that stretch is worthy? Anybody who has been in similar situations.

We were/are very stretched by the fee but still happy about our choice for DS2. DS1 was in a grammar like QE and he said we should do home-ed or go the private route as he thought he wasn't got good support. However, everyone and the case are different. BTW, we are less than 10 minutes walk to a grammar and relocated to near my son's school now. Many might think we are crazy.

Yes our son is very sensitive so that is what pushing us to incline towards WUS so that he can be hopefully enjoy school experience though it will be hard on us. I understand 7 years is long commitment but time flies soon and they grow only once. Somehow i am seeing this as life changing decision at this stage and that is why self doubt creeps in if that is right thing to do.

I wouldn't say contact development is worth paying for as someone who went from a very ordinary background to a girls boarding equivalent of Westminster. I made great friends there but no one who helped me get a job or anything like that.

Personally your son sounds like he'd do well anywhere so I'd probably save my money if it is a stretch. Remember that school fees increase every year and Westminster is already one of the most expensive day schools in the country.

I asked my son (QE Y12). He said that QE is mainly full of nerds - and he loves it. If the teachers think your son is under-performing on the academic front, they are going to tell it to you straight (no delicate balance of financial income vs performance to straddle). There is frequent testing but that just become routine. But there is no bullying to his knowledge. And certainly no "rape culture" (no girls , predmoninant SE Asian culture as people have mentioned)

Whereas the The Times talks about female pupils compiling a 21 page dossier on the rape culture at Westminster school. Last year there was a letter from former students about toxic racism at the school. You think that kind of culture stops with women & BAME? In my experience, that sort of person looks for vulnerabilities to exploit in everyone.

For a sensitive boy, I'd rather have the teachers dishing out the tough love than some entitled idiot with a rich daddy.

The opportunities in science at QE have been amazing - a group of his schoolfriends won the World Robotics Championships in US a couple of years back.

It's also a bit of a one way street: if you miss out on QE at 11, you've missed out. If you want another go at Westminster at 13, there's an opportunity.

Apart from both being one of the top schools in their respective sectors and being in London, they are very different schools.

It is impossible to ignore the 10k a term difference, it depends on what you mean by stretching financially. If it was me I would send mine to Westminster if it doesn't impact my family's quality of life, maybe just mean saving less. If it involves making sacrifices then I would need to have serious doubts about QE first. Academic and career outcomes are mostly dependent on family background. The money will buy a different experience but it probably won't be as life changing as you might think.

It is a very personal choice, but your DS will be fine in either school. In any case, can always choose again for A level.