Advice on secondary school QE barnet vs Westminster school

[toguptasarika]

We have offers from both. Can you please let us know which is a better option for my son? Specifically in terms of maths, science, computer science, music, debate, personality shape up - which school can give him even the huge advantage over the other. Please assume for this discussions sake, our Affordability and Distance to school not be considered.

I think in this day and age, discrimination within top tier universities is getting so extreme against top private schools, that I think a child would potentially be disadvantaged at WUS if that was your goal. I'm saying this as someone who went to Cambridge from the state sector.

Your child will most certainly not be disadvantaged attending Westminster as opposed to QE Barnet when it comes to Uni admissions. Grammars and High achieving comps are in the same boat with Indies.

Also the upsurge in states school admissions has to do with State educated students who would never have dreamt of applying to Top Unis in years gone by now applying to them in truckloads.

@Elij00 I believe there is positive discrimination on the part of unis too who are trying to increase their state-educated numbers.
But I wouldn't say that is a massive consideration at this stage. They're two amazing academic schools and any boy who goes to either of them is likely to have positive outcomes because both are incredibly academically selective.

I think these days a lot of top indies are quite keen on Ivy Leagues and they have special coordinators for that. Oxbridge offers are not be all and end all. Everyone applying for Oxbridge are A* students, they have to choose somehow. I suppose within those two school 80-90% of students have the grades to make it.

It is not as simply as the state vs indie, they would have data on grades achieved by the school and whether the school is from a depraved area. A high achieving state school in a leafy area is not going to have any advantage.

There has been a huge drive in getting state students to apply to top uni. Admission tutors are visiting schools and there are outreach programmes for students from depraved areas and where no family member has been to uni before.

If affordability and distance not to be considered then go for Westminster.

We had same choice, but couldn't justify the cost and felt that there was a certain level of arrogance from WUS during the admissions process.

Totally agree with LondonMummer

@Stokey
Whilst there might be positive discrimination aimed at certain schools, QE Barnet is definitely not one of them. Low achieving comprehensives in deprived areas are the main beneficiaries of positive discrimination(which BTW is only one or two grades lower)and rightly so imo.

If your son is very STEM oriented I'd definitely go for QEB, it's closer to you and it's free. If he's arty then Westminster.

You say Westminster will be a stretch financially. Given your alternative is the free and top ranking QE and it’s closer, go for QE.

For your family the ‘cost’ of the extras isn’t worth it. Yes there will be extras at Westminster but they aren’t worth £40k for a family that will be stretched because of them.

Your boy will find his people at QE. You describe him as an impeccable worker - and there will be lots of those at QE who slaved for years over 11+ prep and whose families expect a lot of them. He sounds like he will fit right in.

I’d only turn down QE for Westminster if money was no object and a drop in the ocean. This doesn’t seem to be the case for you. You can tell people he got both, you can go for 13+ or 16+ if somehow QE disappoints, Options still remain.

In the end, he’s done brilliantly and both schools will set him up fantastically. At the end of the day, his personality and character and career path will be formed by himself and primarily your input not the schools, so trust either school plus yourselves and most importantly him to deliver a well-educated young man with a personality, character and values that you are proud of. And no regrets about choice. Choose and commit 100% to that choice for him.

@Abitofaproblem

Both are top boy schools but different in a lot of ways. Is it fair to say that the two schools will both get their boys to achieve top grades, but their world views and way of thinking would not be the same?

How the thinking are different? Please explain a bit more ?

@BettertoChange

We were/are very stretched by the fee but still happy about our choice for DS2. DS1 was in a grammar like QE and he said we should do home-ed or go the private route as he thought he wasn't got good support. However, everyone and the case are different. BTW, we are less than 10 minutes walk to a grammar and relocated to near my son's school now. Many might think we are crazy.

Which school your First DS went to and what kind of support was missing? Also did moving close to school helped in any ways other than commute for your son ?

DS1 didn't try QE like his younger brother. Other super selective G according to nowadays definition. Moving close just to avoid the long commute.

@toguptasarika I do not know students from both schools to directly compare, hence my question in my original post. That said, although both schools recruit very bright boys, the family background of these boys would be quite different. I imagine a noticeable difference in level of wealth, lifestyle and exposure. I wonder whether this would lead to different perception of the society and which then affects career choice, politics etc.

@wydlondon

Apart from both being one of the top schools in their respective sectors and being in London, they are very different schools.

It is impossible to ignore the 10k a term difference, it depends on what you mean by stretching financially. If it was me I would send mine to Westminster if it doesn't impact my family's quality of life, maybe just mean saving less. If it involves making sacrifices then I would need to have serious doubts about QE first. Academic and career outcomes are mostly dependent on family background. The money will buy a different experience but it probably won't be as life changing as you might think.

It is a very personal choice, but your DS will be fine in either school. In any case, can always choose again for A level.

Thanks . I was not able to understand when you say you have serious doubts about QE and what sacrifices does it entails. For Westminster i agree on financial drain.

I think the person above is trying to say if sacrifices need to be made to go to Westminster then she would have serious doubts about choosing it for your son. Me too!

QE boys is an amazing school

You asked, ”specifically in terms of maths, science, computer science, music, debate, personality shape up - which school can give him even the huge advantage over the other”. As a matter of fact, toguptasarika, my son was in almost the exact position as your son when applying for secondary schools many moons ago. The only difference being the private school wasn’t Westminster but perhaps a bigger name one in Berkshire, in addition to getting a QEB offer.

If truth be known, there isn’t an iota of difference in the academics, maths, science, computer science, etc between QEB and Westminster (and the Berkshire school). It’s a question of how these schools get around to achieving the results.

And if you take into account the humanities subjects then there’s absolutely no doubt that the big-named private schools are much better especially in subjects like divinity and the languages, both modern and ancient, e.g. Latin and Greek, etc.

In short, I really wouldn’t worry about “the huge advantage which school can give him” because there isn’t any especially when you’re talking about STEM subjects. For example, my own GP, an excellent physician had attended QEB and pre-clinical at Cambridge before qualifying as a doctor in a London medical school.

In contrast, my DS had attended a private school in Berkshire – a school which usually rank lower than QEB in league tables – but emerging with a full-house 12 A GCSEs (including both modern and ancient languages, and divinity) in addition to a full-house 4 As at A-Level and similarly graduating from the same London medical school (with distinction).

So you see, there isn’t any daylight between these two young men as far as achievements in STEM subjects goes and both achieving the same professional qualification at the end of their university career. The difference is that one got the whole thing for FREE * and it would cost the other at least ¼ £m under normal circumstances.

But in reality, there are many huge advantages the private school can give your son over the other. For example, in a boarding school environment, as much as 40% of a pupil’s entire career there is spent outside the classroom doing other things minus the academics. There’s music, sports, drama, dozens of specialist societies, debates, plays, speeches and forums by/with external experts in their particular fields specially invited to share their experiences – the list is almost endless!

That’s what you pay your hard-earned money for. Private schools are not bothered about their ranking position in the league table quite unlike QEB where the regime is one of intense pressure on the academics and nothing much else. If you fall short of their expectations, you’re out even if it means getting rid of you after GCSE so that the school can look pretty sitting at the top of league tables. Whilst the elite private schools educate the complete person and not just the academics.

I remember posting this message on MN just over a year ago. Before attending the prep school and later the senior public school, DS was a shy and reserved child who didn’t speak much. Today, he’s a confident young man with no problems taking care of himself even when in the midst of deep Africa and contrasting early last year when holidaying alone in upbeat Florida but had the good sense of removing himself from the USA (losing quite a lot of money for the pre-paid remaining holidays) barely a week before the USA closed all its borders due to the emergence of Covid-19.

I was mightily impressed seeing and hearing him for the first time giving a public speech at the wedding of a close family member about 3 years ago – the eloquence and stance he adopted – and had a few people coming to congratulate me, the parent of a well-spoken and fine gentleman. *

In my previous post I meant I would need to have problems/not liking QE, before considering Westminster if it is a financial stretch.

There are schools local to me that I would financially stretch myself to avoid sending my daughters to. Luckily it hasn't come to that.

As parents we want to do our best for our kids but don't know what is best sometimes.

DS was a shy and reserved child who didn’t speak much. Today, he’s a confident young man with no problems taking care of himself

True of an awful lot of people, including me (though am a woman), whatever school they attended. We grow up and become more confident

DS just coming to the end of yr13 at QE. Very much a humanities student. The support, level of teaching & rounded education that the school offers has been exceptional. The reputation for being a ‘stem’ school has not been our experience. Many boys do choose the stem route, though my impression is that much of the push for this comes from parents & not the school, we were constantly told by the school to let your son follow his interests. The new music block is nearly open, a huge investment by the school, which I feel shows QE’s commitment to non stem subjects.