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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

GCSE choices (particularly MFL)

62 replies

OuiOuiMonAmi · 28/03/2021 19:45

DS will be doing the usual English/Maths/Science and has also chosen History and Music.

I'm unsure about the rest of his choices though. He hates French and teacher said that he'd probably be doing foundation tier if he picked it, so it's not an ideal subject for him. But all you hear is that you should have an MFL if at all possible! He is very bright (but probably not Oxbridge material) and he has no idea what he wants to do in the future. Bearing all that in mind, do you think it's a real mistake for him not to take an MFL?

Other subject choices he's interested are Computer Science and Electronics. I'm not sure if those choices are too 'soft' (though I hate that term) - especially with him choosing music as well.

I want him to enjoy his GCSEs so I'm not suggesting he should have all 'serious' subjects - but equally I don't want him to reduce his uni chances.

OP posts:

CatCup · 28/03/2021 19:48

Doesn't seem to be much of a reason to take a language? Stick to what he is good at and/or what he will enjoy.

nicknamehelp · 28/03/2021 19:53

computer science isnot a soft option and a very desirable option. Best to get grades in what he's interested in. my dd will not be doing a mfl and I'm sure it won't affect her future

titchy · 28/03/2021 19:55

Unis don't care. If he wants to do something else he should.

Spring2021 · 28/03/2021 19:58

If he doesn’t like MFL and isn’t good at it I wouldn’t encourage him to study this. Life is hard enough for them at the moment.

DustCentral · 28/03/2021 19:58

Honestly, it’s such a myth that you should take an MFL. Why force it if they won’t enjoy or excel in it? It really never matters unless they wanted to study a very limited few courses later and even then there are ways around.

Bunnybigears · 28/03/2021 19:59

He is lucky he is getting to opt out of the foreign language. My DS would love to opt out of Spanish so he could do both GCSE PE and Btec Engineering but apparently a language is part of the Ebacc that schools are measured on so he has to do it, they only let you not do it if you are pretty much guaranteed to fail. A foreign language is not really that beneficial to most kids for their future options post GCSE

Iknowtheanswer · 28/03/2021 20:01

At my ds' school, lots of the music class also take computer science. If he enjoys computing I'd look at that.

Tbh, what he needs is a good set of grades to get you into the next stage, whilst doing subjects he enjoys and has fun studying.

LIZS · 28/03/2021 20:02

Ebacc is no longer a thing. UCL is the main uni who expects a mfl at gcse.

Pieceofpurplesky · 28/03/2021 20:04

DS was made to German and wished he hadn't. He had to give up something he would have enjoyed for the sake of the ebacc grades at school

Bunnybigears · 28/03/2021 20:05

@LIZS according to the government and several secondary schools I have dealings with it is. Do you have evidence it isn't because it may help me fight the school to allow DS to drop Spanish.

clary · 28/03/2021 20:07

MFL is my subject and I love it. If a weaker student wanted to do MFL I would happily teach them - and a well-prepared student should be able to gai a 4/5 in the Foundation tier (the exam is a lot easier) which is supportive of less-able students. Note there is no F tier in most subjects now, including, bafflingly, English lang and lit.

BUT if a child does not want to MFL, I think it is a mistake to force them (as happens in so many schools). DS2's year at his school (he is yr 13) had to do MFL; for many of his sciency mates it was their worst grade, a 3 or 4 among a set of 6/7/8 grades. I don't think that is helpful for student or school.

And no, no uni requires it (except for MFL course obv!). If you don't take MFL at GCSE, and want to go to UCL, you need to take a language module. Otherwise, no.

So to sum up OP - he should do what he wants to do and will enjoy. That way he will get the best grades and more importantly have a good KS4. History, music (not soft at all!) CS and electronics sounds like a good selection to me.

LIZS · 28/03/2021 20:14

www.applytouni.com/courses/languages/english-baccalaureate/

It is a statistics exercise for school league tables, but progress 8 is perceived as a better performance indicator. Having a 4/5 potentially at the expense of a higher grade in a different subject would be more detrimental.

crazycrofter · 28/03/2021 20:52

At my ds’ grammar school, Computer Science is compulsory but MFL isn’t! Which I’m pleased about as ds hated German. Being a grammar school, they get lots of students into good universities so lack of MFL obviously doesn’t matter.

PringlePopIt · 28/03/2021 22:05

We were told that the Government was aiming for 90% pupils to be going the Ebacc route rather than progress 8 by the mid 2020's?

Original poster

OuiOuiMonAmi · 29/03/2021 00:51

Thansk so much everyone - that makes me feel a lot better!

OP posts:

MrsAvocet · 29/03/2021 01:17

If he doesn't have to do a language and doesn't have a particular aptitude or interest in taking one then I wouldn't make him. Much better to do something he is more suited to and get a better grade.
Much to my youngest son's annoyance his school decided to make a MFL compulsory for the first time for his year group. He picked French as he disliked it less than German which is hardly a recipe for success! He will do ok - he's currently predicted a 6, maybe a 7 by next year - but he had to drop other subjects that he could have done much better in, in order to, as a PP said, tick a statistical box for the school. And because he has to put more effort into French I worry it may impact on his other subjects. If we'd had the choice there's no way I would have pushed him to do it.

PresentingPercy · 29/03/2021 09:28

And this is why the uk is so poor at engaging with other nations. For some reason DC are incapable of learning a MFL. Unlike millions of other nationals who learn English. No wonder MFL degrees are the province of privately educated DC. It’s a somewhat shameful situation.

BluebellsGreenbells · 29/03/2021 09:41

That’s because they learn to speak English from a young age. We force it on our children too late to be effective unless they are bilingual at home.

None of mine chose languages. Hasn’t held them back because they wouldn’t have done it at 6th form anyway.

PresentingPercy · 29/03/2021 10:37

I’m sure it doesn’t hold anyone back in the uk. It would if they were from another country and wanted to do business with the English speaking world. We simply don’t care about a broad education or seeing ourselves as sufficiently educated to converse with others or understand different cultures. Look where that has got us. We have a narrow outlook and it’s not healthy.

Cliff1975 · 29/03/2021 10:38

I have two boys and a daughter. Both boys chose not to do a language at GCSE, this was against the schools policy but they let it happen thankfully. My eldest son is now at Cambridge studying History of Art so I wouldn't worry do what is best for them.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 29/03/2021 11:08

Go with subjects he enjoys and hopefully that coincides with subjects he gets good grades in or he would be willing to work at to get good grades.

Sack of MFL if he doesn't like it although I did make my sons do Duolingo every day from year 7 and later transitioned to Memrise as they do a specific GCSE pack which helps them outside of the classroom.

Computer Science is not a soft option at all, are you thinking of ICT? It also isn't coding, that is a very small element to it.

Re uni, as above only 1 uni wants an MFL, if you have an idea of subjects he loves now, look at some university courses, see what they want for A levels and then see what a local sixth form wants for those A levels. It won't take long. So for Ds we knew in year 10 he liked maths, physics and computer science. We looked at all those degrees to see what A levels they want (computer science degree only want maths and further maths A levels, not computer science) so it just leaves options open.

Music is a great GCSE.

MrsAvocet · 29/03/2021 12:20

@BluebellsGreenbells

That’s because they learn to speak English from a young age. We force it on our children too late to be effective unless they are bilingual at home.

None of mine chose languages. Hasn’t held them back because they wouldn’t have done it at 6th form anyway.

Precisely. That's why the arguments in favour of taking a MFL at GCSE don't stack up. If I thought my children were actually going to have any really meaningful linguistic ability after taking GCSE then I'd be all for it - though I can think of more useful languages than French and German which is all their school offers. But it's far too little, far too late to really make any difference. I went on a holiday to France with my extended family a few years ago. Apart from the young children, every single one of us had O level/GCSE French, several had A level and one had a French degree but none of us, including the graduate, could speak French as well as most of the waiters, shop assistants, hotel receptionists etc could speak English. Virtually all our efforts to speak French were responded to in (pretty much perfect) English. It's shameful and I would completely support measures to implement a similar strategy for MFL teaching in this country as other countries have for English teaching. But by the time it gets to GCSE choices the horse has well and truly bolted and most parents are naturally most interested in what's going to get their child the best possible set of grades.

EileenGC · 29/03/2021 12:32

This.

But by the time it gets to GCSE choices the horse has well and truly bolted

And THIS! MFL teaching should start in primary school, when it’s fun and easy to learn and the children enjoy it. Where I come from they start English at 6yo and another language at 12yo. That’s on top of 2 co-official native languages and you must do all four, all the way through. Baccalaureate (A level equivalent) and university entrance exams include assessment of 3 languages, two of them with literature. There is no way you get out of them, unless you’ve recently moved to the local area and don’t speak one of the co-officials.

I don’t remember starting to learn ‘English’ because we were tiny and that class was just so much fun. We’re renowned around the world for having the most awful English pronunciation and grammar, but at least everyone knows the basics. Knowing the basics of another language opens up so many doors and the brain develops in a different way than that of a monolingual child.

troppibambini6 · 29/03/2021 12:40

Agree with pp computer science definitely not a soft option.
Dd is y11 now and very bright but not particularly into maths or science. She didn't opt for triple science or further maths but decided to do computer science to try bump up that side of things.
She's is on course for 8s and 9s in all other subjects but has found computer science the hardest of all. By sheer hard work and a few tears she should get a 7 but she would not choose it again.

SeasonFinale · 29/03/2021 17:24

@LIZS

Ebacc is no longer a thing. UCL is the main uni who expects a mfl at gcse.

And even then in the absence of one at GCSE level they will just let you take a beginner's language module at uni instead.

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