No offer at 11+ can you still get in at 13+

[Yesday]

My son didn’t get any offers at 11+ to London day schools. He is at a state school at the top of his class and has high CAT scores but unfortunately due to personal circumstances at time of exams he didn’t perform his best. We are at a state school so didn’t have the head’s backing or a glowing transfer test report. Friends with children at local prep school reported that this covid year the heads relationship with senior schools and the transfer report was crucial and there prep schools had got unprecedented results to London schools which in past years was not as high because everyone had to do round 2 paper exams. I have researched the 13+, I realise now the application is done at the same time as the 11+ and I have missed the majority of deadlines. Our local state school offer is also not good. I am considering putting son into a Pre prep to 13. I have read old comments on posts of mum’s in same situation but their child was at a prep school that goes to 13. The child got a place at 13+ to the same schools even though they didn’t get in at 11+ with the heads help. Anyone here willing to share experience of not getting 11+ but gaining a place at 13+ from a Pre prep. Which schools they gained entry and from what prep school. Also would love to hear experience of common entrance exams, how hard, how much homework, revision materials. Trying to do as much research as possible to find out best options available for year 7. Thank you in advance.

Which area are you looking at and which schools?

I realise will have to be more flexible. All the West London independents, Kings, Hamptons, St. Paul’s, City Boys. North London Highgate, UCAS and Hampton. May also consider boarding.

It's really only in the last few years that the process has really changed and a large number of schools have all the main entrance exams in Y6. Some of the larger 13+ boarding schools may be a bit different but it's not like a handful of years ago when you could more easily switch to a prep school at 11 and do exams from there.

What schools did your son miss out on? The ones you've listed above are among the more competitive ones to get in to. Although people do drop out at various stages, they are all likely to have waiting lists already. Would you look at schools which are slightly less competitive as they are more likely to be able to offer a space.

We applied for 3 of the above which had the same iseb test that went out to all the schools. I think I would consider all schools now. I realise now the system has changed and the 13+ is done at the same time as the 11+. Is it true that more children go on the waiting list rather than straight offer, and then the secondary schools check with Pre prep on progress in year 7 and 8 then the result changes into offer?

Just reassure you, we completed the 11+ process this year from a prep and had no help from head when we crashed and burned a few exams. It was a very difficult year for what is already an intensely competitive process. Our school's overall results were not as good as previous years. I think we were all unlucky with timing of when our dc had to go through this process.

Hampton is very difficult to get into for 13plus, harder than age 11. They do let some ds sit the 12plus if they only just missed the 13 but you would need to get your ds assessed to see if he was right for the school.
I would contact a local prep with space in Sept and get them to assess your ds and give you realistic options at 13 if he joins the prep,for example Harrodian.
Top table in a state school isnt a gauge for the schools you mention and all the ds sitting have top Cat scores.

Hi OP, my understanding (I've been through it but a slightly different range of schools with a small bit of overlap) is that the waiting lists don't work as you've described. Especially at 11+, many of the schools will have gone to their waiting lists to the extent they were going to but have now finished that process. There may be a bit of movement but it depends where you are on the waiting list.

If your son didn't get offers, do you know where he is on the waiting lists? I think in reality you'd be better at looking at schools a notch below where you have tried so far and see whether they have spaces or would assess him during Y7. The problem with the latter approach is that you're a bit stuck if you haven't taken up a state school place and don't then get anywhere.

OP a colleague at work was in this situation about 5 years ago (save for Covid of course). Child was at a great state church primary school. Did 11+ for a couple of indies and Tiffins. They didn't get in and the state option they weren't happy with either. They considered moving out of London as they were so stressed.

Recommendation from various colleagues was exactly what you are suggesting. She went to a prep school (they usually have spaces because of children leaving for 11+). Did 2 years and then did 13+; however, the difference was they had a lot more support from the school about which indies would be best for their child. She's now doing her GCSEs at a great school.

Where are you in London so people can recommend prep options?

Did he apply for any grammars at 11+?

Not all schools will offer a 13+ round for later applicants. You need to check out carefully which might but there will be relatively fewer places so competitive and any assessments could as soon as Autumn year 8. It will be a risk to enter prep for 7 and 8 and potentially be no better off with no year 9 place, either state or independent, so you need a back up plan.

Thank you all for your advice. We are in West London, Hammersmith. We didn’t apply for any grammar schools, location wise I thought it would be too much daily travel. We are on waiting lists for better state options. For those with children at pre prep to 13. How hard is the common entrance? Is it still a nurturing environment or is all just about exams? Did you do extra work outside of school to prepare?
LIZS- That’s my main worry. If I put into Pre prep but then am in same position in 2 years.
I have found out there is less places, but equally being told that if I put in Pre prep the head has a huge part to play in trying too find a place, so better chance of entry at 13. Is that true?

OP any good Prep school/Head will ensure a pupil goes to the best school for them, so its a definite advantage. You have to be prepared that the Head may say your child is not suited for any of the schools you applied for/looking at 13+. They may, for example, feel they are better suited for a more non-selective option, but they will then suggest options.

I note you were saying concerns about travel. I think you may find you need to look out towards Bucks/Berks/Surrey. A lot of London prep schools are only to 11nowadays because of the secondary options.

Most of the Preps in the SE have coaches into London though. Caldicott for example has coaches coming in from Notting Hill/Hammersmith Bridge.

A friend’s daughter has just transferred to Year 8 at the local grammar from a secondary school.

She had a very bad a day on the day of her 11+ and passed her 13+ with flying colours.

Good luck to your son.

@Yesday being in Hammersmith, did you not apply for West London Free School for your state option? I know some who turned down their 11+ places in favour for getting this via music aptitude test (as they were out of catchment).

Did you get feedback on quartile results from the privates you applied for? They are all the most selective and several with Junior Schools attached thus making it more competitive as limited 11+ places with many moving up from their Junior schools. A few also have less of a state school intake than others. What

As @GU24MumGU24 asks did you find out about WL? I expect all the privates you applied are now full for Sept intake and WL are now closed.

What is it that draws you to an independent school for him and why did you choose those that you did?

You don’t have to answer here but to also ask yourself a bit more on reason for choosing. Highgate and UCS quite a bit more northbound journeywise, but obvs high ranking.

Was he prepared for 11+ exams and knew what to expect?

A Pre-Prep won’t necessarily get your child a place at 13+ either. My state primary ed DD got several 11+ offers compared to several of her Prep friends who got no offers or WL! Depends on school being best fit too and if the school offered interview for all applicants, how did that go?

Did you get any feedback from the schools OP, to find out how close your DS came? Many schools are willing to give feedback and it helps give you an idea of what chance your DS would have of improving to the level require by the next set of exams.

Hampton did offer a 12+ exam in my DS's year (for those who did not previously apply or who applied for 13 + and weren't successful). It was NOT for those who applied at 11+ and were unsuccessful.

It does seem to be the case with a number of schools around London now that the 13+ entry point is being squeezed and so may be more competitive than 11+. So you do need to find out how close your DS was and what he needs to do to improve.

Is Dulwich too far for you? They seem to be keeping a 13+ entry point with an exam in year 8, albeit reducing the number of places offered at that stage (with most of the 13+ places being given out after pre-test in year 6). The will, however, also be fewer applying in year 8 so it may balance out.

Common entrance is being phased out now. Many schools have stopped it altogether although keeping children to 13. Many already know which school they are going to but there will be some without a place for various reasons.

I wondered also if Epsom is a workable option for you because I have known people apply outside of the usual year 6 pre-test (e.g. in year 7) and get offered a place for year 9.

The other thing you could consider is finding one or more good tutors used to tutoring for common entrance and GCSE who can raise standards outside of school (and send him to the state school for now). You might get better results this way, especially if your DS is prepared to work during school holidays.

My DS's prep school have definitely taken their foot off the pedal now that most children get offers in year 6 through the pre-test route and you may find putting your DS in a prep school for two years won't give you the desired result of raising his standards.

I would rethink state options as there are good state secondary schools around Hammersmith e.g. West London Free School, Hammersmith Academy and Chiswick School is said to be doing well under the current Head.

You can supplement with tutoring and extracurricular activities using the money you save from not having to pay fees. I have sent my dc to independent school but now, nearing the end of the journey, and the uni destination is just the same as it would have been if gone down the state school route. Dc isn't leaving with the love of learning I would have liked to have seen. I feel it has been a lot of money to pay for some extra sports. Don't get sucked into the schools hysteria that exists in London. Your dc will be fine even if they don't go to KCS, SPS, etc.

OP, contact Falcons prep for boys on Monday, it's near Richmond station so accessible from Hammersmith. I know someone who took their ds out of a state secondary in year 7 and sent him there and they got him into Harrodian at 13. You can also consider occasional places at Ibstock.
Finally have you considered St James's Ashford? It will probably take your ds this Sept. The girls sister school is in Hammersmith and it has a bus route from Olympia out to Ashford. I would also ring them on Monday as they have a late sitting for ds without a school place although this is often in March, I don't know about this year.

You need to have a frank conversation with several prep heads (not sure why you mention preprep). They can swing the balance in your dc favour if they have a good ongoing relationship with seniors but their priority may be to longer standing pupils or siblings with a proven track record. It is likely they will suggest safer options. Does your dc excel in any extracurricular activities such as music or sport? Unfortunately you may find such schools closed this week and time tight. Would you move after Easter given the opportunity?

We've just been through this with our DS. We moved him to an excellent Prep for yrs 6-8, aiming for 13+, as we wanted an indie secondary but knew he wasn't going to make it at 11+ from the state primary he was at.

Many schools do 13+ entrance exams in Y6 so yes, the door is closed on those. But there are just about enough who also run exams for Y8s for 13+ entry. The Croydon schools - Whitgift, Trinity, Royal Russell - plus Dulwich, St Dunstans. Some further out (eg Caterham - where DS is going). And some with either tiny intakes (Emanuel - though I think that may be ending) or 'occasional places' (eg Ibstock, Kew House). There are also other newer senior schools with intakes, eg Kensington Park, Fulham, Thomas's Battersea Square.

Our prep has been fantastic. Great teaching, and huge support on secondary school transfer. As someone said upthread it's worth talking to some preps that go to 13. They choose their own numbers and will often have a space or two after the majority leave post 11+.

I would say though that even with help from our prep, I did TONS of research to work out what the options were. Good schools guide is worth a sub for a month to help you get going.

Good luck.

I think it is highly likely your DS will get a place at an independent school if he goes to a prep because it is a job of prep. However, it doesn’t mean that he will get in one of the above schools you mentioned. All of them are aspirational schools for many prep kids in top sets. There are schools which test children in Year 8 but you still need realistic and backup options. The head will give you advise which school suits him and ideas of combination of the schools which you may apply. It’s possible that your DS will end up at a non selective independent school.
I also recommend to call prep schools to discuss future options.

Most schools these days seem to offer the vast majority of their places at 11...either for 11+ entry or for deferred entry at 13. Many ask parents to specify one of those entry points when applying. They need to know possible numbers for each entry point when making offers so often aren’t keen to make general offers. If a child didn’t get an offer at 11+ (assuming it’s a school that takes at 11) they often won’t want to take them at 13 either. However, sometimes they will say that applicants can have another go if they do 13+ entry in yr 8 too. The quantity that get taken in via this route varies by school but is declining and declining as schools want more certainty about who is coming. Many will now make more offers for 11 and less for 13 in Yr6. If there are strong applicants they might not take hardly any who test and get offers in yr8. In some areas where there is a strong relationship with certain preps, they might hold more places to be allocated at 13.

So if looking at Preps and senior schools you really need to drill into how many go at 13 and how many have their offers in yr 6 and how many do t get them until yr8. Increasingly it is smaller numbers.

That said, 13+ Preps do take students into yr 7 from outside. They could be coming from Preps who finish at 11 and already have their 13+ offers or they could be coming from Preps or state schools and have not got the 11+ offers they hoped for. Preps which feed a wide range of senior schools and also who lose a good number at 11+ will take such students. However if they haven’t had offers at 11+ they usually caveat it with the fact that parents have to be realistic about which schools should be applied for at 13. If candidates weren’t successful for top schools at 11 they aren’t likely to be successful at 13 in most cases except where there’s been something very unusual.

In the end, all these children from Preps who are there in yr7 and 8 go on somewhere. Preps pride themselves on finding the right school for different pupils and sometimes it’s a case of families adjusting expectations over time. For the more immature boy (and it is the fact that boys more than girls can sometimes not be ready for exams or a move at 11) that extra 2 years or first 2 years in Prep can give them time to mature and be much readier for exams and the move to senior. Another couple of years as big fish in smaller pond really works well for some. But there are smaller and smaller numbers of 13+ schools so I think you really do need to drill down into numbers and also exit numbers and destinations from the Prep and I to the senior schools.

Too many people seem to find they end up in yr7 or 8 in a Prep which is pretty tiny as loads left at 11. Increasingly it can be an odd experience as many have already got their offers and aren’t so focused on preparing for exams and are almost just ‘waiting’ to go to senior school, especially if most start at 11. Things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. It has gone from those 13+ Preps having most tested at 13 to them being tested at 11. Lots of senior schools have abandoned the 13+ entry or substantially reduced it. Lots of Preps have abandoned yrs 7 to 8 as numbers have reduced. The Commin Enteance which was the hallmark of yrs 7-8 is used less and less even by top schools who instead rely on their own internal entrance exams at 11 as a better gauge of future ability rather than content heavy Common Entrance.

But of course there are still Preps which have everyone leave at 13 and seniors who don’t take into 13. They might be your best bets and some of the boarding schools and those outside LOndon and the south East might not be so competitive. But even so, most places will still have been offered in Yr6.

In the end they do all go somewhere and most people seem happy and it’s the Prep’s job to sort it out, so moving to Prep for 7 and 8 may well be a good choice. Good luck as we ar equite late in the day but actually lots if 13+ Preps will have places so you should be okay. Just do your research and know what you’re getting into re exit destinations and don’t just jump at the first offer without fully understanding how many already have offers and where children with your DCs profile tend to go.

Can I ask what the personal circumstances were?

If it was an ill parent or sibling (ill - severely ill) then schools may take that it account.

Out in the Shires, Hertfordshire and Bucks, the best preps all go to 13. (Not pre preps - these are Prep schools) This is because most of their DC go to boarding schools at 13. Lots of their DC won’t have even tried for 11 plus. In Bucks, some will have left for Bucks Grammar schools, so Caldicott is a good shout if you want boarding from 13. It’s unlikely you would have to take somewhere average either. I think you will have options out of London. That’s the key though - out of London.

The other option might be a weekly boarding prep. There are plenty of those in Berkshire (eg: in Ascot there’s LH and Papplewick) and Winchester House in Brackley Northants is excellent. I would get out of the London school rat race.

I would caution about joining a school at 13+ which has their main entry point at 11. It can be hard to break into existing friendship groups if you are one of only a few children joining, although of course depends on how easily your child makes friends.

There are plenty of schools that do have big 13+ intakes just outside London which you still have plenty of time to register and apply for. For example, Berkhamsted, Aldenham, St Albans and Haileybury. Admittedly they are further East so probably not viable options but I would agree with a previous poster to look further out of London. Many have school bus routes from various points in London.

If joining a prep to 13 I would also ask where the majority of boys go at 13. It is likely many will be heading to boarding schools hence why stay on? Your son will be properly prepared for common entrance and it’s the schools job to work with parents on next schools.

Many London preps will be keen to take your DS, because they lose so many now at 11+, but be wary of being pushed down the boarding route if it's not for you. I would call up the preps near you and ask for conversations with them about which senior schools would still be options for your son. Good luck.