Admission appeal for yr 7 place

[SummerHouse]

We have handed in our appeal but deadline is Monday so I could still add to it. Thought I could relax once it was in but no, I dreamed the panel were executioners last night. It feels like it is down to which parents can argue their case best and I know some have legal reps.

One thing I am wondering is if we need more evidence. So for example the school we want offers German. We have close family in Germany and had visited every year. Should I ask for evidence from them that they are German citizens or is that ridiculous?

Also wondering what they might ask at the hearing if anyone has experience?

What a horrible process. Sympathy with all who are going through this.

Also I was advised that a friendship is not a good reason so it gets a passing mention but it's actually what keeps me awake at night. They have known each other since babies and best friends since as long as they could have a best friend. Nursery, pre school and primary they have been inseparable. Is this something that even comes into consideration?

The advice from the very knowledgeable and experienced people on here is generally that legal reps are, at best, a bit pointless unless you genuinely feel you are absolutely unable to present your appeal, because they tend to approach it as a legal case and not as the appeal process works.

And you are correct that friendships are only really a passing mention unless there is specific (documented) need. They may have been inseparable until now, but there’s nothing to suggest they won’t go their separate ways even in the same class. Probably feels unimaginable, but secondary is a big change and friendships naturally tend to shift and change at this point anyway

Thank EduCated you sound very wise. It's very reassuring to hear that I have done the right thing in not going to town on that in the appeal.

I think you've got to relax as much as possible. You're right that friendships aren't grounds so a passing mention is enough. Wanting a specific language is, in my experience, probably not enough grounds for an appeal but you might be lucky.

There's a poster who is excellent on legal things but I always get their username wrong. Hopefully they'll come along.

I can't help with the appeal advice but did just want to say please try not to worry about friendship issues. As EduCated says, most children make new friends in Secondary. All of my children had completely new friendship groups by the end of the first term in year 7 and most people I know say the same. My youngest had a friend much the same as you describe and now they grunt at each other in recognition and that's about it. They didn't "fall out" just grew apart as new horizons opened up.
I know it seems like a huge thing now (my middle child went to a different school to his friends) but try not to dwell on it too much. There are almost certainly lots of lovely new friends waiting at whichevet secondary your DC ends up at.

I doubt having German speaking family will influence an appeal, subjects offered especially mfl can vary by demand and availability of staff. Very few schools give much choice.

I think the language issue will carry more weight if you can demonstrate your commitment to the language. Has your son already started taking German lessons etc? I think if you haven't and your only tie is because you have German friends who visit annually then you may have a tougher time as the need to learn the language seems tenuous at best.

Thanks so much all. I think your kindness is actually what I really needed. Especially the lots of lovely friends waiting for him comment. I feel calmer. Whatever will be, will be. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing.

If you speak a lot of "German" and ds uses it with relatives then he can take it as a community language for gcse,as additional gcse. My dds did this with their language and got high grades with just a bit of practice with relative. Most schools will be happy to put forward and pay. Since gcse is basic level so he would be totally bored in classes if he using the language with relatives and it would be a waste of class gcse time when he could take as additional language as extra

It isn't about who argues their case best. It is about who has the best case. A really polished presentation will get you nowhere if you don't have a decent case.

The deadline for appeals is not the final deadline for updating your case. When you are told the date of the hearing you will be given a deadline for submitting evidence. You can change or add to your appeal right up to that point.

If the school you've been offered does not offer German, that is a good point which should carry some weight. It will help if you can show that your child wants to learn German or has already started to do so.

Don't bother with evidence that close family are German citizens. That would be over the top.

It is impossible to predict what an appeal panel will ask in the hearing but they should be concentrating on clarifying any points that are unclear and testing any possible weaknesses in your case.

Friendship issues will only carry weight if there is expert evidence that your child has a greater need to stay with friends than other children of that age. As others have said, friendships change a lot at this age. It is not uncommon for children to drop their lifelong best friend within a few weeks of starting secondary school.

It may seem a little odd that you visit Germany each year and see relatives but you waiting for a,secondary school to teach basic German...surely ds has that level already? Or you have pursued lessons outside already?

But there must be other stronger reasons to be appealing and why the school you want is best.

For dd appeal it was based on her particular health needs.

Our case is weak but that's better to know so we can focus on the school he has been offered and get him mentally prepared. DS can understand a fair bit of German and can speak some words and phrases but that's it. It's a very good point about our commitment to him learning the language which has really been pretty poor. Glad this has been highlighted now and not at the panel hearing so I can at least be prepared.

It isn't that weak. A lot of appellants concentrate on issues that aren't relevant - distance from school, transport issues and so on. Identifying a specific area where your son will be disadvantaged if he is not admitted gets you on the right lines. It will help if you can identify other things he will miss out on if he isn't admitted.

Thanks so much @prh47bridge I appreciate your input greatly. I have just subscribed to a German app which DS will love and so I can at least make a start.

The school we want has amazing extra curricular activities, one of which is of very specific interest. It also specialises in the areas he loves and is very interested in so I have included all that. The ethos of the school is exactly DS.

We have an incredible letter from our head teacher and evidence of all the things DS has done that suit the school and match what the school offers.

We have been told that officially the hearing has no bearing on the decision (it's virtual so they have to account for some not being able to access) but recommended that we take the opportunity so we are.

We have been told that officially the hearing has no bearing on the decision

That's rubbish. If there is no hearing the appeal panel will make their decision purely on the paperwork, but what is said in the hearing definitely does have a bearing on the decision.

Oh that's very interesting and a blessing and a curse (as I am a little terrified). I suspected it would have a bearing and there seemed to be a bit of a hint that it would whilst saying the opposite. That's helpful to know.

I’m an admissions officer and I’ve had over 20 appeal forms so far that all simply state along the lines of “we prefer your school and hate the other one” or “we don’t want our child walking that far”. I’ve even had some that simply complete the form, state that they won’t attend the hearing, and put no reasons at all. Just name and basic details! Honestly I despair.

Your case sounds much better than what I’m currently processing.

I agree with prh47bridge that your appeal is stronger than many others that are likely to be made. As ever, much will depend on the relative strength (or not) of the school’s case not to admit, as the panel needs to weigh them both up.

I tend to agree, though, that your appeal would be stronger if you can show some existing interest in and need to learn German, beyond an annual holiday there. As I’ve said before, I think, you will boost your argument if you can show (for example) that your son is already taking language lessons.

Thanks panelchair DS started on an app tonight and did the daily lesson five times but I will also look at any local options with an actual teacher.

We know the school is technically full according to PAN but we also know they go over by 40 each year because of successful appeals. We have been told 10 will likely go to siblings who didn't get places so that leaves 30.

@PorcelainCatStack that is unthinkable! Our submission was 4k words which I know is excessive but I didn't want to miss anything out...

Ironically I took for granted that he could learn German at school but only now he probably can't has it seemed so important. All the younger family speak good English but the older generation don't so communication is through them.

My eyes are out on stalks at the mention of 40 successful appeals a year - that’s very high. I wonder how as many as 10 siblings can miss out on places (but maybe this is one of those schools which places out of catchment siblings low in the oversubscription criteria). If the school is then regularly admitting 30 more pupils on appeal, it sounds as if the PAN has been set artificially low and the school is using appeals to fill these under the radar places. It all sounds very irregular, although I’ve heard of similar instances in the past.

I'm staggered too by the idea of 40 successful appeals each year. Schools (including my DC's) around here have PAN of 240 (smaller ones have PAN of 150) so taking an additional 40 children on appeal in excess of PAN just couldn't / doesn't happen. OP, are you sure that's correct?

In terms of number of appeals, I have chaired cases where we have admitted over 30. Having said that the circumstances were very much more that the admission authority make a gigantic mess of the admission criteria order and so the pupils were illegally denied a place at the school. As such the only way forward was to grant the appeals where we could confirm that mistakes had been made.
Letting in 30 + on appeals does not happen very often if they are based on individual cases. In this situation it could well be that the school makes a decision to admit 30 more pupils rather than 30 winning appeals.
However none of this should stop you from appealing and doing your level best to get a place at your preferred school.

Yes it is definitely the case. Between 30 and 40 places given on appeal. Various people have told me including the deputy head of the school. I did think it was a bit of move to be selective but apparently it's the LA that push for extra numbers as it's a high performing school. I really don't know why it happens but it absolutely happens and it's backed up in the numbers they have taken for many years.

@PanelChair it's done on feeder schools so our school get six places. I think it's siblings first then distance but I'm not sure. DS was closest child to not get a place and our school got three extra 'lottery' places that went to children further away than DS. Seems a bit crazy but it's in the published admission criteria so it all seems in order.