Admission appeal for yr 7 place

[SummerHouse]

We have handed in our appeal but deadline is Monday so I could still add to it. Thought I could relax once it was in but no, I dreamed the panel were executioners last night. It feels like it is down to which parents can argue their case best and I know some have legal reps.

One thing I am wondering is if we need more evidence. So for example the school we want offers German. We have close family in Germany and had visited every year. Should I ask for evidence from them that they are German citizens or is that ridiculous?

Also wondering what they might ask at the hearing if anyone has experience?

What a horrible process. Sympathy with all who are going through this.

Like admission, I’ve occasionally been on panels where there’s been a systematic error and we’ve allowed significant numbers of appeals. Even so, something sounds odd here if this is an annual event. The latest information from OP makes it sound as if this in effect a bulge class at the instigation of the LEA, but filled through appeals rather than (as it should be) from the waiting list according to the oversubscription criteria.

Anyway, OP, give it your best shot.

That's it exactly. They create an extra class each year. I don't know why and I feel like we may well have got in if they just allocated all the places in the first place. It seems like a mad old game to me.

And thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to comment.

It’s not best practice. If the school has capacity to take another 30 pupils every year, they ought to go through the formal process of raising the PAN and then allocating the places in the usual way.

As a panel member, I just wanted to reassure that we are just regular people, I'm a mum and 40 something year old woman and you are not on trial here. Wishing you all the best with your appeal

Wow. So they have a published PAN which appears in application brochures etc but every year (for how many years?) they create a bulge class of 30? and sometimes, as I thought you said, they take 40 extra? So is that two bulge classes? I'm not disputing what you say but rather saying this indicates you have a very strong case on appeal. The usual School case of being unable to accommodate additional pupils surely couldn't be upheld if they have taken at least 30 extra pupils every year.

SummerHouse - I think I've already suggested on another thread (it's standard advice here) that you should obtain figures from the school for the actual numbers in each year group. If the school has more than PAN in any year group, parents can always argue that the school has managed before to cater for additional pupils and so could do so for their child. That argument seems even stronger here if PAN is x and the actual figure for any year group is x + 30.

In the circumstances (and assuming this has been happening for several years) I think you could argue that the PAN is not credible and should not be given weight. You could then argue that an error has been made that has deprived your son of a place because, if the PAN had been raised to reflect the school's actual capacity, so would (presumably) the number of places allocated to your primary school and it's very likely that if there had been one more place to be awarded on distance, your son would have got it. Who knows what the panel will make of all this, but I think you're in a much stronger position than if you were arguing only about the German teaching.

Sounds like the school wants to keep numbers down, possibly to allow smaller teaching groups. Unfortunately for them, appeal panels aren't interested in that. They are interested in how many the school can hold. If they are losing that many appeals every year, they really should increase PAN.

@SummerHouse no real advice but a hand hold as I’m appealing my sons year 7 place too and it’s incredibly stressful. The school we are appealing for has only ever gone over pan by 3 in a year group before. My son has some SEN needs and emotional needs (he sees a psychotherapist) and his Ed Psych and Psychotherapist have written supporting letters saying that in their professional opinion he will be disadvantaged if he doesn’t attend the preferred school, I still don’t feel confident though and hate the waiting.

We all have a chance with appeals that’s what they for to be won. I lodged my appeal on Monday all 10 pages of it and am ready to fight right to the end for what I believe is right for my son. Good luck everyone in a similar position. I’ve being told appeal will be heard in may/June so guess it’s just a waiting game now

Unfortunately friendships and the availability of German are not grounds to increase the PAN. Procedural error in applying the published rules are pretty much the only reason they would offer a place on appeal, but you can go on the waiting list.

I know it's tough, ive been to appeal (different reasons) but there's usually movement in wait lists.

[quote Thischarmlessgirl]@SummerHouse no real advice but a hand hold as I’m appealing my sons year 7 place too and it’s incredibly stressful. The school we are appealing for has only ever gone over pan by 3 in a year group before. My son has some SEN needs and emotional needs (he sees a psychotherapist) and his Ed Psych and Psychotherapist have written supporting letters saying that in their professional opinion he will be disadvantaged if he doesn’t attend the preferred school, I still don’t feel confident though and hate the waiting.[/quote]
Does he have an EHCP?

@LIZS no he has a IEP but no EHCP as yet, He manages pretty well at his current primary school with additional support though secondary is a whole new ball game

Could you apply for one?

@minniemoocher

Unfortunately friendships and the availability of German are not grounds to increase the PAN. Procedural error in applying the published rules are pretty much the only reason they would offer a place on appeal, but you can go on the waiting list.

I know it's tough, ive been to appeal (different reasons) but there's usually movement in wait lists.

This is not correct.

Appeals are not about increasing PAN. They are about going above PAN in circumstances where the panel judges that the prejudice to the child in not attending the school outweighs the prejudice to the school in accommodating an additional pupil. We were talking about increasing the PAN in the specific context of this school, where it seems they fill a bulge class every year with pupils admitted on appeal, rather than (as they should if this is a long term pattern) raising the PAN and filling the spaces in the usual admissions round.

The point about procedural error is correct for appeals for primary school places where the infant class size rules apply, but the scope for allowing appeals in secondary cases is far wider.

@minniemoocher

Unfortunately friendships and the availability of German are not grounds to increase the PAN. Procedural error in applying the published rules are pretty much the only reason they would offer a place on appeal, but you can go on the waiting list.

I know it's tough, ive been to appeal (different reasons) but there's usually movement in wait lists.

You are right in general about friendships, but not that an error would be the only way a place would be offered on appeal for secondary.

Things like a subject offered only at the appeal school, where genuine interest can be shown, or an orchestra/choir st preferred school abd child is a keen musician, are all reasons which may win an appeal. It's a different story at primary I know.

haha I cross posted with the knowledgeable @PanelChair 😀😀

Ugh we are in a similar situation. Our given school's GCSE options are very much more limited than the one we are appealing for, for example you have to choose between history and geography; many of the courses are in fact vocational btecs rather than GCSEs. Average GCSE grades are 20% lower too. We're arguing that reducing his options at GCSE will have a significant and negative affect on his future education.

Does anyone have a view on us making a big point about our chosen school having a sixth form, and the offered one not? Ideally our son would stay in one place all the way through to a levels, can that be considered an important factor?

Thanks and hand hold for everyone else in this

@LIZS I have started the process but even his Educational Psychologist isn’t optimistic he would get one.
There are lots of SEN and emotional/mental health reasons why the preferred school can meet his needs and the allocated school can’t, The preferred school also offers mandarin as a language which due to its pictorial nature is preferable to phonetic languages for my DS so I’ve put that in too as the allocated school doesn’t.....

Neighneigh.
My understanding is you might on the narrower curriculum, but then that argument could apply to anyone who wanted to go to that school and didn't get it. Same for results. If wanting a school with better GCSE results was enough for an appeal then everyone would be successful.

Because sixth forms have their own admissions, at least all the state ones near me do, I can't imagine preference will be given to someone because their parent has already decided where they would like their 16 year old to do their post-16 education in 5/6 years time (depending on time of appeal). So much can change between a Year 6 student viewing a secondary and a Year 11 student choosing their post 16 pathway.

Neighneigh
I realised I sounded more negative than intended. Sorry.
On curriculum and results you'd need to be more specific, eg If your child is identified as highly able, what's the progress score like for highly able students? If your child had SEN does part of the preferred school meet their needs as part of the curriculum? If your child has a particular aptitude that the school excels in, how will they be disadvantaged by going to a school that doesn't have that provision?

A parent wanting their DC to do History and Geography in 3 years time for their options / a parenting having an issue with a school offering lots of vocational courses would be unlikely to be enough based on my anecdotal evidence, but legal people and panel members will be able to offer better insight.

Does anyone have a view on us making a big point about our chosen school having a sixth form, and the offered one not? Ideally our son would stay in one place all the way through to a levels, can that be considered an important factor?

You can make the point but I wouldn't major on it. An appeal panel won't give it much weight. A lot can between now and your son entering sixth form.

GCSEs are stronger but even those are a few years away. You can improve your case if you can find more immediate things your son will miss out on.

And agree with PanelChair's response to minniemoocher.

@LolaSmiles thanks, I didn't read it as negative, just honest. It seems like we have a few small ish, reasonable issues which I hope combined would weigh in our favour. And yes he works at greater depth across the board, with particular interests in geography and history which is why we feel he shouldn't be limited.

It just seems to me that the school we've been offered would reduce his opportunities so much with the curriculum on offer. Going through the offered school without the potential to do more really depresses me; academic aspiration is very, very low round here. And I know GCSEs etc are all a long way off but we don't really have much else to go by, those are the key markers. I will look at progress scores again though thanks. And thanks to @prh47bridge too

And I agree with prh47bridge’s point about the lack of a sixth form. By all
means mention it in passing, but don’t go overboard, because you don’t want (in effect) to be saying that a school without a sixth form isn’t good enough for your child. That may well be your view and the view of many other parents but the panel can’t endorse it, because otherwise they’d effectively be saying that nobody need ever go there.

@Thischarmlessgirl I have everything crossed for your. Your case sounds really strong and puts my own worries into perspective. I really hope you get a place. And thank you so much for the hand hold. Offering you one right back.