How to know if child is smart enough for 11 plus

[Gettingthereslowly2020]

DD is in Year 4 (state school) now. She's always been quite bright and she always says the work at school is too easy for her.

School don't give much feedback on how she is doing academically. At the last parent's evening pre-Covid, they showed me a chart that said she is working at the expected standard. At the last parent's evening during Covid, it was done over the phone and the teacher said she sometimes gives her some Year 5 work and she keeps up with them.

I've noticed her spelling isn't great and she doesn't do any work outside of school. I have to force her to do some reading but she does really enjoy learning at school. She seems to be in the top group in class from what she's said.

How can I find out if she is smart enough for grammar school? School do assessments but they never share the results with parents. Can I request that they share her results with me?

I don't really know where to start with all of this so any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm Trafford. Have PMd you with a suggestion for a tutor who does testing soon. You might still be in time to get a test, about £30 (done by zoom in last year's lockdown) which would be useful even if you didn't tutor with them.

@Africa2go good grief! Why have the numbers gone up so much?? There are still the same number of primary schools locally.

Think its a combination of factors; more children generally sitting the exam (more prep / out of Trafford), the process (you just sit 1 exam now & tick a box for which schools you want to be considered for so children who might have just sat Urmston for example previously are now asking to be considered for the 3 other schools) and different admission criteria (eg AGGS has had a lower pass mark for a couple of years now for children in receipt of pupil premium).

Mumsnet is bloody brilliant! I've gone from idle pondering to having a clear plan of action and a recommended tutor - all in less than 24 hours.

Yes, I'll definitely be using a tutor. Even if DD doesn't get offered a place, the improvement in her Maths and English would still benefit her whichever school she goes to.

I think that's a good decision @Gettingthereslowly2020.

Some of the maths isn't taught till later if I remember correctly so it's a boost whether they get in or not. It was a great confidence boost for DD, especially with the style of English teaching in Y6. DH and I hadn't a clue how to help her.

I would just add, that if DD is motivated by the idea of a grammar school, do explain to her that she needs to read. That greatly improves vocabulary and spelling. Vocabulary really helps with 11 plus. I remember a friend’s DD saying in the Bucks 11 plus, they were asked the opposite of the word “Oriental”. She didn’t know and neither did her mum. General knowledge can never be under-estimated either. What you talk about, what you read and absorb are helpful. Tutoring doesn’t help much with that.

Just jumping on to second what others have said - the single most important thing you can do is encourage her to read consistently (30 mins a night) and a wide variety of texts too as this will build her vocabulary in a much more meaningful way than just studying the words individually.

Also building on another previous point - be prepared to teach to beyond year 5 maths for the test too. There are many elements of the year 6 curriculum (such as ratio, basic algebra) that she won’t be taught until after the test.

I didn't get into the grammar school, and I'm not particularly academic. But tell me I can't do something, and I'll prove you wrong.

I ended doing better in life than almost anyone from primary school, including those who went to the good schools.

Only to say, you should go for the grammar school. If she gets in, that's great. If not, there is another way to do well.

Ring up the schools you're interested in and look on their websites for past papers. The schools you're applying to will be set up to help, but it doesn't sound like the primary have much interest or motivation to do so (and indeed, they're not required to).

Bloody hell, @PresentingPercy, were they looking for occidental? That's pretty hardcore, even for a very well read child!

Off the back of this, I've just emailed my DD's school, enquiring whether they think she's a possible candidate for the entrance exam for the local consortium schools. The grammar schools round here are only semi-selective - most pupils are admitted geographically, only 20% via entrance exam, but have a very good reputation nonetheless.

Like you OP, I know she's very bright, but I don't know how bright she needs to be - I really don't want to put her under too much pressure!

I wouldn’t have a clue what is the opposite of ‘oriental’. And I am v. well read, and highly educated

Maybe 'western' would do??

If you live near Trafford, yes research the schools. Speak to her teacher to see if an academic grammar is right. Is that what you want for her? There's loads of good non selective schools that will push her in top sets too. My DC are exceeding in all areas and always have but I decided that I didn't want to spend Y5 tutoring them as they do tons of extra curricular everyday. And I wanted them at a local school for all the social reasons

It's occidental innit

Just to respond to a point upthread OP you can't get past papers for the exams, they're not published but you can buy CEM test papers which are the same type (Bond, Letts etc).

@Lightsabre

Look at the eleven plus exams forum- everything 11+ on there including a talk forum.

OP, the Eleven Plus forum is brilliant for information - you’ll be able to go to the Trafford section, and find what form the 11+ takes in this area. This is really important. I can tell you loads about the Kent Test, but it might well be irrelevant to your area.

Just be warned...some of the posters there are a trifle intense.

@Gettingthereslowly2020, my DD is at Alti girls. It’s very competitive but preparation is key. However, keep in mind that at Altrincham, the girls are ridiculously competitive amongst themselves and tbh, I’m not sure that suits them all at all. So be sure your DD will thrive there before sending her.
Just a point re Bond books. A lots are designed for independent school entry (CEM) rather than grammar school entry (GL) The non verbal ones will help but look on Amazon for grammar 11+ prep. Card sets such as Whizz match are great for vocabulary and not dry like other flash cards. 11+ variety 8 papers were useful to us too. Also, some practice on how to fill in the multiple choice paper which was like a lottery card slip where you put a line in a box a-d. Sounds silly but it’s all time critical and familiarity with the format is very important. *having said all this, please double check the most up to date format. Good luck

I don't know your area but anyone who is attaining 'at expected' wouldn't be grammar material here (Kent). It may be less competitive where you are.

@GinaJaffacake The Trafford Consortium exam is CEM and has been for 4 or 5 years now, not GL. AGSB is (at present) a separate exam, and that is GL, but I think AGSB is also joining the Trafford Consortium exam from this year - so there won't be any (state) GL exams.

@Africa2go, thank you for correcting me. My DD is 17 which is why I said to double check current format. Apologies for the misinformation.

I'd say for Trafford grammars they need to be exceeding expectation in all areas really in their year group. Then again, most are tutored heavily to get in also, so some more middling children will get in due to having tutors through Yr5 and sometimes Yr4.
That said, even with tutors I know a number that still failed to get any offers

@idontlikealdi

I don't know your area but anyone who is attaining 'at expected' wouldn't be grammar material here (Kent). It may be less competitive where you are.

What part of Kent though? I'm in East Kent and I think a few of the brighter expected level kids would pass, particularly if they've been tutored. Much less competitive than West/North Kent though I'm led to believe.