Could do with help thinking through DS's 6th form options please.

[JessieOh]

Would appreciate some input from people who know more about this than me. (I went to school in a different country and still learning how 16+ education works in England and I am prone to overthinking.)
I don't know how to guide DS for the best....and feel I should question his plans rather than blindly go along with them.

DS is on track for strong gcses grades overall and is hoping to do Maths, Physics and Computer Science A-levels. He eventually wants to go to uni to do a computer related course. At the moment he can't narrow it down to any specific uni course or field of computing.

He was hoping to do A-levels at the same school he is currently at, until the school announced that Computer Science (CS) would not be going ahead.

Today his IT teacher suggested he do IT at school and access CS A-level via an online course and said he can sit the exams at school.

To me, the obvious answer is to go to one of the other local schools that offer all three desired subjects but he really really doesn't want to. His good friends are planning to stay on at his current school. His teachers are also encouraging him to stay on, I presume because he is going to contribute positively to their grades. While it's lovely to realise they value him, I need to feel sure ds next step is right for him, not just because the teachers will say what it takes to make him stay.

Having looked online the course would cost £3-400 and if it was the right path for DS, I would happily pay it. But it will mean he is doing 4 A-levels, although the pressure of this will be eased by the overlap in IT and CS. He is a self driven able student and I don't doubt he will work especially when it is subjects he is interested in.

My hesitation is due to the fact that there are reputable schools, closer to home (he walks 40 mins each way) that offer the 3 subjects...why do 4 with increased cost and work? I do appreciate he will end up with more ucas points, but will uni's count points from all 4, or just his best 3? Having CS will increase his choice of uni course.

Ds gets upset when he thinks about changing schools, and really wants the familiarity of his school, friends and teachers. I've tried to explain that often when we are challenged we thrive and develop self confidence but his mind is closed to changing schools. He has already looked at the course content online and planning how to get some done over the summer holidays to ease the pressure later on. But I am worried he may not fully understand the jump in workload from gcse to A-level.

His school and teachers are brilliant and would most probably be happy to talk to me about this. My questions so far are:

1. can they offer him support with CS if he needs it?
2. recommend a reputable online course provider?
3. can he definitely sit the exams at that school? Any thing else I should be asking or considering?

After my long ramble I would appreciate advice on what I should do...go with his wishes or guide him toward changing to one of the schools that offer all 3 subjects. It is also worth noting that when he started yr 7 at his current school he changed overnight. I didn't realise he was so unhappy at primary, and he was a hard to manage child. He has thrived at his current school, hence my hesitation in bulldozing him to change school.

My DS sounds similar in that he really wanted to take Computer Science A Level (with a view to a future career in IT) but it wasn't offered in his school sixth form and he didn't want to change schools.

I'm not sure what the IT offered is - I don't believe A Level ICT exists any more, so presumably this is a Level 3 BTEC extended certificate? This still counts as a Level 3 qualification, but it's not an A Level, if this is important to you/him. You should have a very close look at the content of this course to see if it interests your DS. My DS considered it but decided that it wasn't the type of computing he was interested in (he was more interested in coding).

Also have a look at the entry criteria of the universities he may be interested in- both to see how they view a BTEC (most will accept it in a similar way to an A Level if it's in conjunction with A Level maths and physics) and to see what entry criteria they have. As computer science A Level is not universally offered (as you've found) universities are often more interested in maths A Level.

I should probably cut to the chase and say that my DS opted to study 3 A Levels (including maths) and stay at his current school. He was fortunate that his school did run a 1 year AS course in Computer science which he did in conjunction with the 3 A Levels. He decided that this was a better path than 2 A Levels + Certificate in ICT.

Unless your DS is really keen, I would entirely abandon the idea of studying A Level CS in his own time. He doesn't need it for his future plans, and it will just add unnecessarily to his workload. He might like to consider an EPQ in a computer science topic on top of either 3 A Levels or 2 A Levels + IT, if his school will support it?

Is your ds year 11 now? If you are thinking about 6th form starting this Sept you may have missed the application window.

I can't really answer your questions other than I work in Education for a large Employer and for some things staff can sit exams onsite with a member of the team invigilating inline with the education providers guidelines, so it may be that he can sit the exams in school.

I just wanted to say that I choose totally the wrong A-Levels, I was bullied at secondary school, I finally had a couple of friends by year 10 so after year 11 I stayed at the school 6th form as I was convinced being new somewhere would be awful, I'd have no friends. I stayed at the school 6th form, doing the wrong subjects as they didn't offer what I would have preferred but didn't want to have to make new friends. As an adult I really wish my parents had encouraged me to go elsewhere, doing the wrong subjects to stay with friends really wasn't the right choice, I wasn't mature enough to see that at 16 I wish my parents had guided me towards other options more.

It's a tricky one. It would be hard going to a different school where there are already established friendship groups. A sixth form college might be easier as more people would be 'new' starters.

It might be worth your DS having a closer look at the courses that interest him and seeing what is required. From a quick glance few Computer Science courses require it at A level, but excellent maths is a must. For top courses Further Maths would be an advantage. As a PP suggested, he could do an EPQ with a computer science theme

He doesn't have to have CS A level to do a CS degree.

Is he strong enough at maths to do FM? That would be preferable to the IT qualification imo.

In Hampshire almost no schools have 6th forms. This means everyone has to make an active choice about what they want to study next and which college is best. It stops them doing less optimal courses because of staying with friends / being too worried to move.

(There are drawbacks of course such as not knowing the teachers.)

He should apply to more than 1 school and decide later.
I really though wouldn't do an 'extra' in his own time.
And if considering CS at uni he should consider FM at A level but only if capable.

Let him stay at his school where he has friends and feels happy. What a lovely situation for your son.He's well like and respected and will do well in his chosen subjects. Consider doing the CS remotely it will look impressive to future employers if she can prove how self driven he is. You must be very proud.

Doing 4A levels is hard. Doing the 4th on your own, in your spare time would be incredibly hard, and require a lot of dedication from the student.

I would have a look at uni entry criteria for CS courses - I don't think many (any?) require CS A level - maths is important. Does he have the option to do an EPQ? He could base that on something to do with computing/coding etc and choose a completely different third subject.

My DD has switched to a new school 6th form and has really settled well. It was what she wanted, but it has worked well for her.

If there is another subject he likes and is good at that could be another option staying at his current school as you do not have to have cs a level to study it at Uni particularly if your school doesn’t offer it. He could still study some of the computer science content for interest or to help with his future uni study but without the stress and pressure of a self taught exam. Or he could do a MOOC or some reading or watch some lectures on the subject and do some coding outside of school to show interest.

These are the requirements for computer science at Imperial.

www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-department/computing-beng/

CS not required, but the IT qualification may be a positive disadvantage.

If he wants to stay I would see if Maths, Further Maths and physics a possibility and go for that over ICT qualification and distance learning of CS.

DS is doing Maths, FM, Physics and Comp Sci and it is pretty full on (he has a project as well). He didn’t do Comp Sci for GCSE and is doing fine. I was wondering about gently persuading him to drop one but parents evening has reassured me it’s ok but a big part of that is because he has exceptionally high standard of teaching.

Schools do talk bollocks to keep them. My son's maths teacher tried to convince me universities prefer them not to have done "too much maths" because the school sixth form didn't offer Further maths. Then tried so say he could do it alone.

Remind your son he won't be with his mates at uni, but if he does the wrong A levels, he may not make uni at all.

If he is looking at top grades for GCSEs and if then a view to CompSci at uni most unis want maths and further maths. They do not care about Compsci A level. CompSci courses at uni are broad, you narrow it down in your final year when you have been taught a wide array of content.

For CompSci, universities cannot specify FM as not all colleges offer it but it would put your son at a huge disadvantage against the vast majority of students who secure places. I do have the stats to back that up if needed.

Ds1 is year 13, does 4 A levels, maths, FM, physics and Computer Science. He has 4 uni offers from RG unis (interviewed for Cambridge but didn't make the cut, sadly.) As linked above Imperial do not consider ICT to be a worthy A level. And I agree that sometimes school only have their own interests at heart, not the student for when they leave.

I would look at courses at uni to see what appeals to him and look at their entry requirements. For CS they usually say A* in Maths and/or FM if taken. I know you said he cannot narrow it down but a scattergun approach (you may need a spreadsheet) will help you and him see what unis are asking. Ds always knew he wanted to do CS from about year 9 onwards, so we reverse engineered it, ie look at the course and work out what A levels they are looking for. Just in case we also looked into maths and physics courses as that is where his passion lay.

Definitely pursue any passion for CS outside of the classroom but this doesn't have to be an A level. For uni they are looking for a student to demonstrate a love of their subject and focus on "supercurriculars" so what things have they read, done, completed in their chosen subject outside of the classroom. This can be courses, website challenges, visited places etc

As others have said, ditch the IT, ditch the idea of CS as an extra, and look at Further Maths instead for the third A-level. I’m wondering why school haven’t suggested this, actually?

Asking/persuading him to change schools just for the CS isn’t a good plan when he really wants to stay where he is. He’ll resent you if it doesn’t work out, and a happy teenager is more likely to work hard and find things easier. It’s massive at that age. I went to a different sixth form but I actively chose that - it would have been much easier for everyone if I’d stayed on at school but my parents supported me and respected my wishes and I’m still grateful for that.

Just to caveat, that some responders have fallen into talking about things that are specific to Oxbridge/top Russell group universities only. There are plenty of universities that will take someone onto a CS degree without Further Maths or without an A* in maths. So don't panic!

I would encourage you to look at entry criteria at a range of universities. If he's targeting top universities, of course he should understand what they require as well!

FMaths is likely to be a better option than IT if he's considering computer science. However a school that can't offer CS may not be able to offer FM either.

Is he already a keen programmer? If so, then a CS EPQ might be a very adequate alternative to doing the A-level. Is there support in school if he is developing his programming skills independently? (For that matter, if he did a remote course, might they run to providing him with one lesson a week of support?)

Are any others in the same boat? (If any of his friends are, maybe they can move schools together.)

I think you need to get him to at least consider the other schools - fix up a meeting with them, even if it has to be by zoom. (The other advantage to doing this is it might affect the current school's decision if they think they might lose him. I once saw a situation where SMT decided not to run FM for only two students, but when they realised that they would both leave, they backed down.)

The other advantage to doing this is it might affect the current school's decision if they think they might lose him. I once saw a situation where SMT decided not to run FM for only two students, but when they realised that they would both leave, they backed down.

This might be a consideration at a private school. State schools don't have budgets to run A Level options for only 2 children.

I'd agree with going to at least see (or virtually find out about) other sixth forms. Change is scary, but finding out a little bit might make it less so.

User I do agree but the OP said "DS is on track for strong gcses grades overall" so I was going off that.

The most important thing for a degree in Computer Science is A level maths.
I think he woudl find it very hard to do CS A level remotely.

I like school sixth forms. I think for most kids (not all) it is better to be in a familiar environment, with friends. I think that many of them find the upheaval to sixth form college doesn't do them any favours, and then all change again for university. At this age friendships do matter, and some may be lifelong.

Our local sixth form college only requires them to attedn when they have a lesson, and theydon;t have good study facilities. Whereas at the school sixth form they need to be there from 8:45 - 3:15 every day, which I think is helpful

@OnTheBenchOfDoom

User I do agree but the OP said "DS is on track for strong gcses grades overall" so I was going off that.

You're working off an "academic MN child" perspective though, so probably thinking that "strong" means mostly 9s.

I'd say a set of GCSEs that were mostly 7s with the odd 6 and odd 8/9 could be described as "strong". But might mean the child was not Oxbridge/top university material. Hard to know either way from information provided. I made the (perhaps erroneous) assumption, that OP's DS was not a super able mathematician or FM would be in the original mix (perhaps as a 4th A Level), and yet many PPs have suggested taking that.

I just had visions of the OP reading all the "must have A* in maths", "must have FM" type posts and panicking.

I agree FM will only be a requirement for the very top Uni's. DS had offers from 5 RG Unis for CS without FM. The requirement was an A in maths. Maths, Physics and another subject that he enjoys and could secure a good grade in would probably be preferable to the IT qualification if he is confident of an A in maths

Ask the school whether there is a consortium arrangement with nearby schools, so he could study one subject elsewhere and the remainder at current school.

@UserTwice I do get where you are coming from.

Several RG unis for CompSci want AAB so not all of them are like Warwick's A A A which is the top, most ask for A* AA or below.

I confess we didn't drill down any further grades wise as Ds is very committed. I will also say that Ds1 was just average, really average grades wise and then got a bit of confidence, some incredible teachers and combined with a great work ethic resulted in a soar with his GCSE grades. He worked his arse off and it paid off. This then put him into the "academic MN child"

It depends how badly he wants to do Computer Science A level. The fact he wants to stay at his current school seems to imply he values the school more than the actual subject. Whereas for my ds he valiued the subject he wanted to do more (music) so moved to a college that offered it.

My dd did a self-study A level and got A* but there were a few differences. She didn't was a performing arts diploma. We didn't pay for an online course. She bought textbooks and had a weekly tutorial with a her GCSE teacher who in turn, set work for dd, marked it and then sent a selection off to a teacher at a neighbouring school who did teach the subject at A level.

Dd is very academic and enjoys self-teaching. My ds would not have been capable of that.

Hit send too soon. There is a bit missing in my post that explains she did the self study A level instead of, not as well as another A level. She used that teaching block as study time.