Could do with help thinking through DS's 6th form options please.

[JessieOh]

Would appreciate some input from people who know more about this than me. (I went to school in a different country and still learning how 16+ education works in England and I am prone to overthinking.)
I don't know how to guide DS for the best....and feel I should question his plans rather than blindly go along with them.

DS is on track for strong gcses grades overall and is hoping to do Maths, Physics and Computer Science A-levels. He eventually wants to go to uni to do a computer related course. At the moment he can't narrow it down to any specific uni course or field of computing.

He was hoping to do A-levels at the same school he is currently at, until the school announced that Computer Science (CS) would not be going ahead.

Today his IT teacher suggested he do IT at school and access CS A-level via an online course and said he can sit the exams at school.

To me, the obvious answer is to go to one of the other local schools that offer all three desired subjects but he really really doesn't want to. His good friends are planning to stay on at his current school. His teachers are also encouraging him to stay on, I presume because he is going to contribute positively to their grades. While it's lovely to realise they value him, I need to feel sure ds next step is right for him, not just because the teachers will say what it takes to make him stay.

Having looked online the course would cost £3-400 and if it was the right path for DS, I would happily pay it. But it will mean he is doing 4 A-levels, although the pressure of this will be eased by the overlap in IT and CS. He is a self driven able student and I don't doubt he will work especially when it is subjects he is interested in.

My hesitation is due to the fact that there are reputable schools, closer to home (he walks 40 mins each way) that offer the 3 subjects...why do 4 with increased cost and work? I do appreciate he will end up with more ucas points, but will uni's count points from all 4, or just his best 3? Having CS will increase his choice of uni course.

Ds gets upset when he thinks about changing schools, and really wants the familiarity of his school, friends and teachers. I've tried to explain that often when we are challenged we thrive and develop self confidence but his mind is closed to changing schools. He has already looked at the course content online and planning how to get some done over the summer holidays to ease the pressure later on. But I am worried he may not fully understand the jump in workload from gcse to A-level.

His school and teachers are brilliant and would most probably be happy to talk to me about this. My questions so far are:

1. can they offer him support with CS if he needs it?
2. recommend a reputable online course provider?
3. can he definitely sit the exams at that school? Any thing else I should be asking or considering?

After my long ramble I would appreciate advice on what I should do...go with his wishes or guide him toward changing to one of the schools that offer all 3 subjects. It is also worth noting that when he started yr 7 at his current school he changed overnight. I didn't realise he was so unhappy at primary, and he was a hard to manage child. He has thrived at his current school, hence my hesitation in bulldozing him to change school.

Wow lots of answers and lots of points made that are worth considering, thank you all so much for taking the time to respond.

I'm going to reply to posts one by one as I'm on my phone and find it easier that way.

@UserTwice

My DS sounds similar in that he really wanted to take Computer Science A Level (with a view to a future career in IT) but it wasn't offered in his school sixth form and he didn't want to change schools.

I'm not sure what the IT offered is - I don't believe A Level ICT exists any more, so presumably this is a Level 3 BTEC extended certificate? This still counts as a Level 3 qualification, but it's not an A Level, if this is important to you/him. You should have a very close look at the content of this course to see if it interests your DS. My DS considered it but decided that it wasn't the type of computing he was interested in (he was more interested in coding).

Also have a look at the entry criteria of the universities he may be interested in- both to see how they view a BTEC (most will accept it in a similar way to an A Level if it's in conjunction with A Level maths and physics) and to see what entry criteria they have. As computer science A Level is not universally offered (as you've found) universities are often more interested in maths A Level.

I should probably cut to the chase and say that my DS opted to study 3 A Levels (including maths) and stay at his current school. He was fortunate that his school did run a 1 year AS course in Computer science which he did in conjunction with the 3 A Levels. He decided that this was a better path than 2 A Levels + Certificate in ICT.

Unless your DS is really keen, I would entirely abandon the idea of studying A Level CS in his own time. He doesn't need it for his future plans, and it will just add unnecessarily to his workload. He might like to consider an EPQ in a computer science topic on top of either 3 A Levels or 2 A Levels + IT, if his school will support it?

@UserTwice The IT is a BTEC extended certificate. He would prefer to do CS because of the coding aspect.

When I said he can't narrow down the field I mean in terms of job title. He wants to do coding though which isn't part of IT. I think it seemed logical to him because it ties in with his future plans more than any other subject offered at his school. If it was a choice between the two he wouldn't choose IT.

I haven't heard of EPQ, will look into it.

@nancy75

Is your ds year 11 now? If you are thinking about 6th form starting this Sept you may have missed the application window.

He is year 11 now and you're right, application deadlines have passed.

I was working on a "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mode, and so he has two conditional offers at 2 others schools, and a conditional offer at a college to do a computing course. All three have a good reputation and are much closer to home than his current school but they don't appeal to him.

Most CS degree courses don't require CS at A-level. Maths is often required but CS rarely is.

My opinion, stay at current school as his mental health will be stronger and he will be happy. This is sooooo important.

He should do A-level maths, physics and further maths if offered (or any other subject).

As long as he shows an interest in coding and computers in his personal statement he will be in a strong position applying to uni. He will also be happy. Win win.

@Miarara

I can't really answer your questions other than I work in Education for a large Employer and for some things staff can sit exams onsite with a member of the team invigilating inline with the education providers guidelines, so it may be that he can sit the exams in school.

I just wanted to say that I choose totally the wrong A-Levels, I was bullied at secondary school, I finally had a couple of friends by year 10 so after year 11 I stayed at the school 6th form as I was convinced being new somewhere would be awful, I'd have no friends. I stayed at the school 6th form, doing the wrong subjects as they didn't offer what I would have preferred but didn't want to have to make new friends. As an adult I really wish my parents had encouraged me to go elsewhere, doing the wrong subjects to stay with friends really wasn't the right choice, I wasn't mature enough to see that at 16 I wish my parents had guided me towards other options more.

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you still regret your choices now.

You make a really valid point and that's where I'm coming from, what if I just go with his flow and he ends up regretting it?
Equally, he is very hard to convince otherwise once he has an idea in his mind, and forcing him to go elsewhere could backfire if he isn't happy, in his behaviour, his work ethic, friendships etc. He has a group of sound friends and that's worth so much at this age too. My girls are so much easier to reason with but he's a stubborn one. 🤦‍♀️ While it will stand to him as an adult I just want to make sure he doesn't regret his choices in the future.

I'm helping my niece choose uni options at the moment. She wants to do CS at uni as she loves coding. From my research I think that he should do A-levels but do lots of coding projects in his spare time. That would make his uni application stronger than someone who did CS A-level but nothing in their spare time.

What unis look for is strong maths skills and a passion for computing/coding.

Good luck to him. Where might he want to go to uni?

This!
This is what I have figured out from all the replies. It does seem a good compromise, and as you say, win win.
I agree MH is so important and worth protecting when it's good. He won't learn a thing if he isn't happy.

I've realised it's going to take me ages to reply to each question individually, but the above is the conclusion I've come to, from all the info you've shared.

Particularly useful was to learn that some uni's don't recognise BTEC IT, he could have done that without realising it wouldn't be counted. That is the kind of mistake I was worried about making unknowingly.

I also didn't realise it might be a possibility to do CS at another school and 2 subjects at his current school, we will explore this further.
This weekends main focus will be looking at uni courses and minimum requirements to hopefully help him realise he doesn't need to increase the pressure by doing 4 A-levels. I hinted at further maths this morning before he left for school, but he said he still wants to do CS because it interests him. At least if he is doing 3 uni accepted Alevels at school he can do CS for pleasure independently and if it all gets too much he can ease off/drop it, and uni's never need to know about it.

A pp mentioned about my definition of strong grades overall, he is predicted 8's, except for English, and we would be very relieved if he passed either lang or lit. His (and mine, it is genetic, I'm sure) brain is so maths/science orientated. He was the 10 year old in the park who looked at a group of people eating ice cream and randomly told me that magnum was the preferred option by 80% of the group. He sees numbers everywhere I'm sure. He has always been an avid reader too, but English gcse has dampened his love of reading.

I have been looking for years for an extra curricular club to do with coding but there is nothing in our local area. Wonder if he could do an evening class at local college even though he isn't 18. Another option to explore.
Lots to think about but I do feel like maths, further maths and physics at his current school is the way to go. And to explore other cv worthy ways of meeting his coding desire. Let's see how he feels about it when he gets home. Thank you all so much, you've really helped me unpick it all.

Ah! My "this" was to YeBanksandBraes.

what if I just go with his flow and he ends up regretting it?

This might happen either way. Choosing sixth form is different to choosing secondary school. Your DS needs to make the ultimate decision, and own it, whilst realising that it might not the optimum choice, because that's the nature of making decisions. If you force him (or evenly strongly encourage) him to do something and it backfires, it will be much worse.

Have a look at OpenLearn or free coding courses online. Loads of stuff available for the motivated child!

The only other thing I would add is don't under estimate the value of your son being at school that he is familiar with and the teachers know him. My DD wanted to leave her school after year 11 however, for various reasons, she ended up staying there. It has been invaluable during this pandemic especially given the school are now having to manage grades etc. We, as parents, have an established relationship with the school which is also advantageous.

Fingers crossed that everything will be back to fully normal by September but we can't actually be sure what is around the corner.

coderdojo.com/start-a-dojo/

Could he start one? OK, might not stretch his coding skills for himself but would give him a real CV-worthy thing to talk about and he might have fun in the process... and if there's been nothing at all in your area he won't be the only young person looking for something like that. Perhaps his school would support it if they're keen to keep him and his IT teacher is helpful?

@2021Vision

The only other thing I would add is don't under estimate the value of your son being at school that he is familiar with and the teachers know him. My DD wanted to leave her school after year 11 however, for various reasons, she ended up staying there. It has been invaluable during this pandemic especially given the school are now having to manage grades etc. We, as parents, have an established relationship with the school which is also advantageous.

Fingers crossed that everything will be back to fully normal by September but we can't actually be sure what is around the corner.

I hadn't considered that at all! Yes you're so right. I'll add that to the benefits column of staying put on the ever expanding spreadsheet.

@UserTwice I agree he needs to decide for himself and own the decision, but he is 15 and I'm sure most of us can remember thinking something was the right decision in our teens, but can now see with hindsight that it wasn't. I want him to make an informed decision, and feel my job as his parent, is to make sure he knows all the facts and options such as 2 A levels at one school, one at another. Another example- we had no idea that some uni's don't recognise the btec in IT. He could have blindly gone into 6th form and not realise this until uni application time. It oversights like this that worry me.

A wise person once said to me "there are no wrong paths, just different paths". He won't make any choices that make a future path impossible - it just might be a bit more winding - and who's to say he won't benefit in different ways from the bends in the road?

Look at MOOCs (on line courses). DS did one by Coursera on machine learning and AI and loved it. They are free - you only have to pay if you want the certificate at the end. It may help to determine what sort of course/career he wants too.

Good luck

Most CS degree courses don't require CS at A-level. Maths is often required but CS rarely is.

I agree.

DS is looking like he want to do CS course at Uni - DH teaches one though they had a fight getting A-level maths added as requirement for their course- and I studied and worked in the area.

His school is already pushing A-Level IT, or whatever their IT option is, as a good option for him as they don't do CS A-level which isn't what he'll need. However he's likely to follow our eldest who plans to go to a nearby college which does currently offer CS A-level otherwise we'd be suggesting Maths and physics and anothe A-level which works along side those two options.

Eldest has a careers lesson where a teacher tried to suggest that A-levels at schools somehow counted more than A-level done at a college and DS was told that the numebr of GCSE not grades or subjects was the most important thing - we're all a bit wary of the advice now.

As not all 6th forms can offer computer science unis can't ask for it as an Alevel I'm order to get on to a course. Another option may be do 3 Alevels where he is, as especially in current times, being with friends a known environment is good. Then do some online programming courses, my ds has done several of these in lock down just to keep himself busy often only cost £10/20.

Coming from a MH aspect I wouldn't underestimate the value of your DS staying on at his school with friends and familiar teachers. In fact, based on some very tragic personal circumstances from this year, I would try to keep him at his current school at all costs.

If he is able, he will do well anywhere. As others have said, FM might be a better match and keep all options open for university.

Being happy overrides almost everything else in my view

Look through some Uni courses with him at Unis that seem appealing and check the facilitating subjects.