Have we made the wrong independent choice?

[upsidedown80]

We have accepted an offer to an independent in late 100s on Sunday times list earlier this week and declined one which is ranked in top 50 - partly because it’s much easier to get to (although OH now thinks he wants to move closer to the higher ranked school soonish) and partly because we thought ds2 would have a much better chance of getting in with the older in place.

But since accepting and paying the deposit it’s been sitting uncomfortably with us. DS1 is bright and would benefit from a more academic environment and needs a bit of a push otherwise is happy to coast. He also feels he worked harder to get that place and therefore deserves it but the school we have accepted is the most likely option for DS2 and I don’t want to burn bridges because without that place it’s very likely he’ll get nowhere and is the sort of child to grow up upset that he went to state and brother didn’t.

I appreciate its supposition but how badly behaved is it to rescind your acceptance a few days after making it? I really don’t want it to hamper ds2’s chances when I’m fairly confident I could get him in with older there?

But equally, where we have accepted is a great school for all sorts of reasons and lots of people we know of didn’t get in and would love to. 50% get 8s and 9s at GCSES. He won’t be the brightest but he will be one of them. He is lucky to have a place there but doesn’t feel it but equally if we now rescinded the offer, someone would definitely be grateful for it.

Is ranking just London school madness and I need to stop being sucked in by it? Bright kids will do well anywhere? I can’t help feeling I’ve squandered his chance at going to a top London school that he worked hard for and sacrificed him for the benefit of the younger.

The other school has said it understand and transfers in year 8/9 and even 10 have taken place from one to the other. It would be year 10 by the time ds2 but changing at that late stage seems a bit drastic.

Does anyone have any advice? What would you do?

Dc move between schools far more than you would imagine esp years 8-9. Stick with your original decision but know movement is a possibility.

I would say rescind your acceptance quickly while they still have a waiting list of people who want to go and take the best school for DS1. He is the one going to the school. Not DS2.

But is the ideal school for DS1 more academic and you don’t think DS2 will get a place there? Is that correct?
Do they have to go to the same school?

Private schools don't have a sibling policy - at least the handful of North London schools I specifically asked because I had a similar conundrum.

The only scenario I can imagine where it might be an advantage to be a sibling is if there's a direct choice between a sibling and a non sibling and both have the exact same exam score, CAT score, interview ability, musical grade, sports ability etc.

If I were you I'd get him in his top school and call them today.

Sorry to hear you're in this situation, it's stressful.

Well I don't think you should pick a school based on a younger child.

So if you genuinely think the other school is better for your DC then by all means, change your mind.

But equally you haven't said anything that explains why you prefer the other school over the one you've accepted. It being easier to get to the chosen school is a good reason for choosing it!

I think you need a head wobble over your viewpoints about academic schools. Is it bragging rights that your DC goes to a "top 50" school that you are interested in? Look at what you've written and consider why you describe a school where 50% get 8s and 9s "less-academic"?

And why you think you think DS2 will go "nowhere" if he can't get into this school? I'm assuming you are in London and there is more than 2 possible viable schools on offer. I think DS2 might be more upset by your attitude that he will "go nowhere" without a sibling place in a particular school than having to go to (shock horror) state school?

I'd leave it, a bright child can do just as well in a "lower" ranked school, the margins between are often pretty tight. If it seems an issue consider a swap 13+ or 6th form. Some schools will look less harshly at siblings as they are more likely to accept the place.

Just to echo what others have said - students who apply to independent schools are usually assessed on their own merits and they can (and do) reject one sibling and accept another or vice versa. Therefore you should pick whichever school is better for your first son. This should include thinking about the journey - a long commute to school isn't great

As you say, bright children tend to do well anywhere and it's better to be middle at an average school than bottom at a very academic one. Doesn't sound like that's where your son is at, though.

The ranking tables are not the be and end all, and is essentially just an average across all subjects. Reflect on why you made your decision in the first place . A bright child will do equally well at any of the top 100 schools.

I do feel a bit sorry if you eldest got a place at both schools and you chose because of the younger one, not because of him especially if you're in London where it's probably much easier to have siblings at different schools.

If you'd chosen school 1 straightaway I don't think school 2 would have minded or held it against your younger one BUT unfortunately if you do what they'll possbly see as messing them around, that might be trickier.

Thank you for all the replies, i appreciate all the views

@Skatingpark97 yes DS1 is more academic and DS2 is seemingly less interested in reading and writing, sitting and concentrating but he is only in year 3
@SailingBuddy yes DS2 less academic and if we change our minds and choose the more academic school i highly doubt he will get a place, but no they don't have to go to the same school, but school we have accepted is his most likely option and i don't want to hamper his already potentially unlikely chances
@UserTwice i agree that 50% 8s and 9s is great, and we were going to send all our children to state schools but there was one that we wanted far more than the alternatives and some of the academies came with alarming stories about draconian zero % tolerance and children stacking hours and hours of detentions for the most minor of supposed offences. It sounded like no fun. Our circumstances changed last summer so we broadened our search. We had no idea how competitive the independent process was and son had some rejection and worked very hard for the more academic place. It's hard to say why we like anywhere this year not being able to see anywhere, but the children appear to get more time with teachers one on one and the school is quite big on helping children learn how to learn, their approach to science is great - my feeling is that they work them a bit harder (the one we have chosen sounds like a lot of fun) and our DS is someone who will do it if asked but not if not chivvied along, which is another reason I prefer it. I hope it will help to develop some rigour because he has always been happy to coast. It does involve two buses to get to rather one, however, and he's not the earliest of risers.

I agree with LIZS.
Also, if it's not an especially selective school but still gets 50% 8s and 9s at GSCE, it might even be a better school in some ways than one that only lets DC in who are on track for those grades already. The more selective at intake, the higher the grades are likely to be at the end of it. If you feel your DS will be one of the brightest, you can be fairly sure he will fall into that 50% statistic, can't you? It doesn't sound like a school that won't cater for the bright boys.

Yes, to answer your question, I do feel a lot of London MNetters are sucked in by the indie marketing and wanting their DC to be seen to go to the ones that are hardest to get into.

The only wavering factor for me is that it seems like you are going against what your DS wants. I don't think it's very fair to have DC sit tests and get excited about schools and then not let them go when they pass.

On the question of whether it is badly behaved to take back your acceptance, it must happen fairly regularly when higher preference schools are offered from waiting lists.

I think you really need to think about your eldest here - which school would be the best fit for him. It sounds really unfair to turn down the offer at a school that he really wanted and worked hard for (and reading between the lines, you think is better for him) just because his brother wouldn't get in!

Lots of children go to different schools (particularly in the private sector where many are single sex), because what is best for one child is not necessarily best for another.

Would you still be able to get a place at the school you declined or have they passed it on to someone else? I do feel if you're forking out thousands a year in fees, you want to feel confident you've got the best value for money. But do think about the journey. If it is much harder to get to, how will that impact DS1's life on a daily basis?
DS may be excited about school 1 now and feel he "deserves" it, but kids are very adaptable.

Pick the school that best suits DS1 whichever school that is. If he prefers the other school that should come into play. I wouldn't worry about hurting the chance of your younger child if you turn down the place now. The school won't really care, especially if they have a waiting list.

I know people who have turned down places and reapplied at a different entrance point and been admitted. I doubt the admission teams can even keep track of what's happened in previous years with the number of children who apply.

I would go with the school you feel is genuinely best for DS1. You talk about DS2 going to state if he doesn't get into the same school as DS1 - I'm not sure I understand that. If you've got the money for independent fees (no scholarships/ bursaries involved), then I'm sure you will be able to find the right independent for DS2, particularly in London where there are billions of schools. Why does it have to be either of the schools currently in contention for DS1? Also, if DS2 would only squeeze into the current school because of the sibling link, and would struggle to get a place on academic merit otherwise - then is this really the right school for him anyway?

If I'm missing something and it's genuinely a case of DS2 going to state if he can't go to either of these two schools, then that might be different (nothing wrong with state, but maybe issues of sibling equality) - but I'm not understanding why that would be the case.

Speaking as the parent of three DC with very different abilities, I think that if you want to go down the selective school route the key things to bear in mind are

(a) that you give each child an equal chance to attend an independent school (ie exam prep, entrance for exams etc)

(b) that you apply for schools that you feel will suit each individual child best AND will be realistic for that child to achieve an offer.

You don’t have to have siblings in the same school.

By all means go with a less high ranked or academic school if you feel it is the right one for DS1 (plenty of people on here and IRL do this for any number of sensible reasons, journey often being one of them). But don’t opt for it simply because it is more realistic for a younger sibling to achieve! That would be really unfair on both DC and surely a breeding ground for resentment.

The other thing I would say is that even the more gently selective academic schools will still not allow a sibling in unless they pass the entrance exam.

I do totally sympathise - my Y6 DC achieved offers from two highly ranked academic indies. These two schools would not have been an option for his older brother and most likely will not be an option for the younger one either. DS2 is just highly able and effortlessly academic in a way the other two are not.

But crucially DS1 DID have the chance to sit for (and achieve offers at) indies suitable for his ability. He eventually chose the state route and was very happy there, but can never say he didn’t have the chance to attend a private school because he did. We will give DS3 the same chance in due course but at the present time I think it unlikely he’ll achieve the same school offers as DS2.

FWIW, I know several families where one DC is in a selective school (indie or grammar) and the other is in a normal comp. In all cases this was because one DC passed the entrance exams and the other one didn’t, but - crucially - in all cases all DC were offered equivalent opportunities.

Unfortunately it is just life that some DC are more able than others and if you really feel it will be a major issue that will cause resentment then probably the safest option is to ignore selective schools altogether and just go down the state route for all. But not all parents want to do that of course.

OP, what if you send DS1 to your chosen school, but when DS2 comes to apply, he isn't offered a place there? Would it still feel like the right decision to have made, or would you regret turning down the other school?

What are the closing dates for acceptance of each?
It could be that the place you declined has already been given to another child and you won’t have the choice to change your mind.

The sibling thing is interesting. Schools don’t operate sibling policies, but if it comes to very borderline cases or 2 people in equal positions in a waiting list, the school will often look to favour the sibling and make an offer. They just have that little bit of flexibility and it makes sense...but it tends to only be around the margins. Where we are, every year a decent chunk of siblings don’t get in. Ive hears the school rings them to let them down gently rather than just via the letter.

So, pick what’s best for DS1. But get in and contact the school you declined if you’ve changed your mind today, because it might already be too late and by next week, will probably be too late....they don’t ha g about with filling places, plus they always over offer anyway as they know everyone won’t accept, so I think it’s fairly likely you’ve missed the boat unfortunately.

I would not make a decision on my child's school place based on helping a sibling out. Each child is different - if you can pick the school which is best for them. My twins go to different high schools.

If you have declined the other place I would have thought it would be hard to backtrack on that - it will surely be too late?

It's unlikely there is a sibling policy at either

I think you should be less worried about your younger son's chances of getting into the less academic school if you rescind on your initial acceptance and more worried about getting your eldest into the more academic school now that you have rejected their offer. They might no longer have a place open.

(Retired teacher). I'd take the place offered for the older son , because the school suits HIM. The most important thing a school can offer a child, is that they (staff and pupils) enjoy and value each other. Get that right and everything else will fall into place.

Your younger child is developing at a different rate, but that doesn't mean he's less bright OR less academic than his older sib. It's just too soon to tell. So it's also too soon to make any plans or decisions about his future education. Everything might be quite different in a few years.

Is this school Emanuel by any chance? The ranking and the sibling policy would fit...

If so, I couldn't recommend it more highly.
They don't particularly focus on rankings as the family ethos is an important USP (hence a generous sibling policy and resultant lower ranking when compared against other independents who don't have the same priorities) but the new head has driven up academic standards significantly and the results are improving year on year. Being a sibling does not guarantee entry but the academic hurdle (which rises year on year) is certainly lower for a sibling than another child.

I have 2 DC at Emanuel. Both are extremely happy there. It comes across as a very happy school and I'm sure this is helped by exceptional pastoral support that is totally enmeshed in all the school provides. I have friends who have DC at more 'academic' schools who are not nearly as happy or as supported as the children at Emanuel.

My eldest is more academic than my youngest who probably benefitted from the sibling policy when they took the entrance exam. Both are very different and thriving in different ways.

The school have a benchmark as to what they expect from each child and if a child drops below this the child and the parent are made aware and the child carefully monitored. If a child performs below expectations (for them) the school has a system that flags this. So if your DC has the potential to be a high performer they will not get away with just coasting. If their academic performance is not at a level the school believes it should be, you and your DC will know about it. There are a lot of very, very bright children at the school who could have gone to much more selective independents but who chose the more laid back and less overtly competitive feel of Emanuel.

So please don't worry OP if you have chosen Emanuel - it really is a great choice with the added benefit of your younger child having a better chance of also benefitting from all it has to offer

Couldn’t agree more with @elloelloelloah. Lovely nurturing school.

I'm quite shocked at the way you have spoken about your ds2 tbo. You said he is year 3. Which makes him 7 or 8. Bit early to tell how academic he is. Or to write him off if he can't get into one particular school. As for being the type to be upset that he went state while his brother went private... Seriously?

For ds1, go for the school that suits him. Then help ds2 into the school that suits him. In a few years time.