Tips - What to do if you aren't happy with your school place

[PatriciaHolm]

OK, so it's National Offer Day for Secondaries today so I thought it might be useful to do a quick summary post, primarily on what to do if you aren't happy, as I know it will come up a lot today....(FWIW, I sit on Appeals Panels, and also a Chair of Governors. There are several other panelists around too.) Hopefully this will be helpful.

What to do if you get a school you don't want?

1. Accept it. This is does not signal to the LA that you are happy, it just locks in a "last resort" option. It has NO impact on waiting lists - you get no preferential treatment on lists or at appeal if you turn the place down, nor are you negatively impacted if you have accepted a place.
If you turn it down, the LA no longer has an obligation to find you a place, so you will be dependent on waiting lists/appeals. If they don't come through, you could find yourself with no place in September. So ONLY turn it down if homeschool (or private) is definitely an option......

2.Get yourself onto Waiting lists for schools you do want. In some areas you are automatically put on lists for schools higher in your preferences that you don't get into, in some cases you need to ask, so check - your LA website, email, or login portal will probably tell you what to do. You can also add yourself to lists for schools you didn't apply for (some LAs limit the amount of lists you can be on though.)

3. Check there has been no mistake. If you are genuinely surprised and you think a mistake might have been made - wrong distance used, sibling link ignored etc - it's worth checking. Your decision letter/portal is likely to have the criteria you were assessed under for each school and, for example, the distance used in the case of distance criteria, so check all is well. If it doesn't, check with the LA. But be patient, lots of people will be calling/emailing today and tomorrow....

4. Think about appeals. You can appeal for any school you applied for and didn't get into. I won't go into depth here as each appeal is different, but essentially you need to show that the detriment to the school of taking another pupil is less than the detriment to your child of getting a place. If you decide to do this, post and ask for help! A number of us here are happy to do so.

If you are happy - great! Accept it, if you need to (some LAs will auto accept for you.) And be patient - most secondaries are a bit busy right now (!) so it may be a while before you hear from your chosen school re. induction etc.

Any questions, do ask. Sometimes it's easier for someone not emotionally involved to figure out the answer or find a detail.

Just wanted to come on and say thank you so much to the three of you in particular who are giving us all this advice. It's so stressful being in this situation - we are appealing but also lucky to be high on the waiting list. The optimist in me is desperately trying to come out but I feel I'm letting my son down if I don't fight for him now so I am winding myself in knots about the appeal. The more research I do the more I don't want our current school offered but the calm and rational advice here is helping so much.

You’re very welcome. Obviously, none of this comes with a guarantee and, as we always point out, a lot depends on the relative strength or weakness of the school’s case not to admit. Even so, I hope we can help people to present their appeal in a way that makes the most of the arguments they’ve got, avoids some of the obvious clangers and maximises their chances of success.

Thank you all.

My next question is how do I choose a good school near me please? My DS is very academic, and enjoys playing basketball. He get motivated where he finds challenges otherwise he looses interest.

Thank you once again for your time and advice.

@Toppybas123 did you not include any local schools on your initial options. Is the allocated one not feasible? At the moment choice will be limited by vacancies (usually less popular schools) and waiting lists. LA for your address is your first port of call

Toppybas - The downside of discussing several people’s situation on one thread is that it’s hard to remember each person’s situation. Have you not got a place for your son? Why not?

@LIZS and PanelChair, we're offered Penketh High. We wants King's Leadership, both Warrington. We moved address after the application closed, so we didn't get to apply to Warrington but Manchester.

This takes me back to my question please, how do I know which school to choose. I was ofsted report doesn't say it all.
Thanks

There is no simple answer to that. All you can do is look at the information available on the schools and decide which is best suited to your child.

Ofsted reports are one source of information, but don't give you the complete picture, especially if they're several years old. Besides, there's no point setting your heart on a school with a brilliant Ofsted report if you stand no chance of fulfilling its admissions criteria (although this may be less of an issue for an in-year admission, but bear in mind that the most popular schools don't tend to have vacancies as they have copious waiting lists).

Start by looking at school websites to see which offer subjects your son's particularly interested in or sports or other clubs he wants to join. Also think about the practicalities of him travelling to and from school.

Lost half a sentence there! Was saying that not fulfilling the school's admissions criteria (such as living outside catchment) may be less of an issue for an in-year admission, because if the school has a vacancy it has to give it to you when you apply for it but this tends not to happen with the most popular schools because they have long waiting lists from which they can fill vacancies.

Are there any other parents of slightly older children you have met yet? Where do the children living around you go?

Thanks both for taking time to answer my questions and offer advice. I posted 2 schools in a Facebook local group, most parents went with Penketh. I'm also lucky to meet the chair of governors on group and she agreed to a Facebook call, we changed numbers. She has arranged a school visit on Monday.

To be frank I don't know the kind of questions I should be asking them both on Monday. Any suggestions is mostly welcome. As I mentioned I would like a sch he can excel both academically and any other issues he would like to do.
My concern is I don't want anything short of the standard he is currently working on.

Best wishes x

You say he's very academic, so ask what opportunities they offer for enrichment or for taking things to a higher level. Ask whether there's a basketball team and so on.

@Toppybas123 presumably you have explored their pretty comprehensive website which mentions Basketball, enrichment etc. Ask about that and any queries you have in mind such as subjects he is passionate about. If you decline the offered school it will not force LA to make an alternative offer.

Thank you so very much everyone for all your advice, I'm so overwhelmed. I've always come on here to read comments, this is my first time posting and you have all been very supportive, bless you all. And do have a beautiful week ahead x

I had to apply through Southwark council for a school place in Sefton (250m miles away) because we don't live there yet. Obviously I'm not trying to pull a fast one because the commute wouldn't be feasible!

I only put schools in Southport (Sefton) on the list as we're moving as soon as my son finishes primary school in East Dulwich. Yesterday I received an email to say that he had a place at a school in Peckham (Southwark) where we won't be living come September (all the schools I applied for are over subscribed).

My son is in the CAHMS system, has just been diagnosed with autism but doesn't have an EHCP yet, and we're moving as I need a lot more help with him from family up where we're moving (I'm a sole parent through widowhood).

I did everything the right way - applied in October, gave details about where we would live and submitted a psychiatrist report. However, choosing not to disrupt his primary education by moving him up north sooner has left us 68th on the waiting list of 68 for his preferred school (chosen for the support I believe it can offer him).

I'm now facing the reality that he essentially is without a secondary school place - we'll live 250 miles away from his allocated school come September. I do have an appointment with Southwark admissions and I've already spoken to Sefton and now I have to appeal using all the information they already have. I just wondered if I could be doing any more than that.

@converseandjeans

We got second choice and are probably 300m out of catchment. DD got in couple of years ago about a month after the allocation day and we hadn't appealed. There were 10 new spaces available due to people not accepting a place.

So this time I am wondering whether to sit it out and hope the same happens. Or whether to appeal. Does appealing affect a place on the waiting list? Will it disadvantage us? Or do schools just expect the appeals to come in?

We have no SEN, we are just out of catchment and the sibling rule doesn't count due to high numbers. Is it worth appealing?

No

No

Yes

Yes

@lifeasawidower

Your problem is/was that when allocations are done, they have to be done using the child's address at time of application, unless you fall into some narrow categories such as being returning military. Allocations cannot take account of planned future moves.

Realistically you were very unlikely to get a place in Sefton based on your current address, and the local LA there has no obligation at present to find you one, as you currently live in London - so when you didn't qualify for any your preferences, it fell back on Southwark, as your son resides there, to offer something.

As soon as you have an address in Sefton, you will move up the waiting lists, and Sefton LA will then have an obligation to find him a place somewhere, but it may not be in a school of your choice. So make sure as soon as you move, you let them know.

And yes, appeal. With as much expert evidence as you can - external CAHMS reports, reports from the school SENCO, the progress on the way to diagnosis. Alongside the reasons why this school meets his needs specifically - do they have a specialism in Autism support, for example, or specific clubs that he has an interest in?

Thank you. Essentially, then, the system suggest that we need to move at whatever cost to what's left of his primary education and psychological safety in order to get a place at a secondary school. I understand it but it's stress on top of stress. Thanks again for your reply.

@lifeasawidower

Thank you. Essentially, then, the system suggest that we need to move at whatever cost to what's left of his primary education and psychological safety in order to get a place at a secondary school. I understand it but it's stress on top of stress. Thanks again for your reply.

Assuming you are buying in Sefton, their admission arrangements suggest they will accept your new address once you have exchanged contracts. You won't have to actually move to get a place and you certainly don't need to move straight away. You can appeal now without moving. And, even if you don't get a place that way, once you can give Sefton a confirmed address with exchange of contracts, they have to come up with a place for your son.

@lifeasawidower As prh47bridge and PatriciaHolm have said, you will move up waiting lists as soon as you have a confirmed address in Sefton. I would suggest pursuing the EHCP as far as you can in the time available, as (ideally) you will get an ECHP naming the school you want and (if not) you might at least get into the higher category of social/medical need on the waiting list, assuming there is one.

@converseandjeans Can you say more about why the sibling rule doesn’t apply because of high numbers?

Oops. Just spotted that @converseandjeans’s comment was from last year so doesn’t require an answer.

panelchair yes it was last year. The school we wanted took away sibling places as they knew they were going to be oversubscribed.

We appealed but didn’t succeed and ended up moving DD to same school DS got into.

The whole thing was really stressful but in the end it has worked out ok. The school they go to is nearer home & DD is much happier.

Hi @PatriciaHolm - i wonder if you can help with this question, I called my LA but they didn't really give me an answer.

One of the schools we didn't get has an appeal form as you have to appeal directly to the school, on the form they ask you to list your 6 schools that you applied for in order. Are they allowed to do this? We put this school 2nd but as we didn't receive a place at any of our 6 we are now re considering and want to appeal to this particular school. We don't want to list them as 2nd as i feel this would disadvantage us - are they allowed to ask us for this information and will they be able to check what we put on the form? I thought this was confidential and shouldn't have a bearing on allocation.

Please could I ask about waiting lists? If the advice is to accept the initial offer but stay on waiting lists for higher preferences- how do the schools / councils know you want a different school? We have a situation at my primary school where 2 families have got the schools the other family wanted , but how will it work in reality ? Thanks

They know you want a place at that school because you're on its waiting list (but make sure that you are - some LEAs automatically place you on the waiting lists for higher preference schools, but in some LEAs you have to opt into the waiting list). Some LEAs will also allow you to join waiting lists for schools you didn't initially apply for, although sometimes that means dropping off other waiting lists.