Which school would you choose for your DD? Nonsuch vs Private school, i.e) Wimbledon, Guildford high school

[Bijura]

Hi
What benefits do you think it will be for a child if they get private education versus state grammar school like Nonsuch?

I am from foreign country and do not know British education that very well. And, I have choices to make..

Honestly? Very few benefits , if any, and unlikely to be worth £20K per year. My (high achieving, got offered Tiffin Girls) opted for our local comprehensive (admittedly outstanding) and is now in Y9 and, despite all the challenges of lockdown, has had an amazing time. Loads of lovely friends, doing great academically (on course for 9s at GSCE), represented the school at basketball, football, netball, cross country, athletics, cricket. However, if you now say that your child struggles in big classes or can't cope with distraction or you have loads of money so £20K is nothing, then your choice may (understandably) be different.

@Nowfeeltheneedtopost care to share which comprehensive offers all these amazing opportunities? I am facing a similar choice and my main problem is that the private schools do offer far more sporting opportunities. If you just look at the list of sports clubs and also the list of fixtures, there is no comparison. I am not saying that should be worth 20k for everyone, some people don't mind, others can easily do the same outside of school for a fraction of the cost, but it seems disingenuous to suggest it is the same.

Look at the schedule of sports clubs at Tiffin, it looks very basic to me. I am sure all the academics are top notch and there won't be a difference in terms of academic results.

@sanam2019 I don't think PP is trying to he disingenuous. Some state schools have amazing sport offerings, and half the time don't even advertise them. They are not the marketing machines privates are.
My DD is not remotely sporty but her school has a girls basketball, cricket, netball and running club even though I had never seen anything about them before until her friends were showing medals on facetime. They don't even have a proper sports field.

Saying this though, I don't think you can stroll into any state school and expect this. I do think at privates it is easily expected. I would ask yourself, is my daughter going to use these opportunities, is she good enough to be asked on the team and is this not something I can supplement. Remember, state schools often finish their day sooner and are closer to home so clubs aren't as tiring.
Of DDs friends that went onto privates, the ones that are on the sports teams all do that sport outside of school.

‘Superselective’ grammars are highly sought after and difficult to get into. If your DD gets a place the cost difference is huge: almost free vs £100k plus, would’ve thought! Resourcing (no of staff per pupil and specialist teachers) and facilities will be better at private schools. Probably more extra curricular at private, depending what she’s into.

When you're looking at schools, you need to find out not only what sports facilities a school has, but who's actually using them. A lot of the states around us have some amazing sports opportunities, but they seem to be mainly used by the sportiest few. I have a number of friends whose kids were considered really sporty in their little primaries, but when they got to secondary they weren't good enough to make the football/netball teams, so they don't get to do much sport, as the amount of lesson-scheduled sport is pretty small.

What I've loved in our (independent) school is that the sport is so inclusive. Everyone does two full afternoons of games every week, plus swimming and PE. Everyone plays in regular matches against other schools. My not-at-all sporty DS has got pretty fit and has really enjoyed the camaraderie of being in a team and doing lots of sport - rather to his and our surprise. He even does some extra clubs voluntarily. I'm pretty sure that at a different school he would have been one of the kids who's great at the academics but grudgingly puts in a half-hearted effort at a PE lesson once a week and opted out of any non-essential sport.

But - I don't think this is a simple state-private issue. I've heard lots of comments on here about state schools that do loads of inclusive sport, and about private schools that are only interested in the top teams. So I think you need to look at it on a case by case basis.

The big difference will be extra curricular BUT it often isn't too a high level. I am a sports coach and all the fee paying school children come to the club (with the state school children) because the coaching is WAY better. So the parents are paying twice for the sports their children take seriously. Which like a PP said is fine if you have oodles of money, but if you don't you can get just as good academics and sport outside of the fee paying school system (albeit you might be using clubs and a private tutor to top up some subjects, but it is still much cheaper and can be more targeted to your particular child's needs.) I have some friends who have taken the fee paying school route and their children don't take up many of the opportunities and they are a little miffed but then I have another friend who has a very good all round child who plays tons of sports who is pleased with their offering. Depends on your budgets and your child.

@sanam2019 I found your response to my comment unduly rude. As others have said, the choice of a school should be about your child and what will suit them. I just don't believe it is as simple as "private school = lots more sporting opportunities". I think other posters have made important points about the inclusiveness of the offer and the standard of coaching. I wanted a school for DD which would encourage her continued participation in sports and give her opportunities to represent the school as part of a team; I didn't care if the school wins the national championships or the Borough league or neither. Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the OP's thread so I'll leave now.

@Nowfeeltheneedtopost I just get the impression that whenever this question comes up on mumsnet, many posters come along who tell the OP how their local comp is amazing and comparable in opportunities to private schools, but they never share names. Please, if you know of a comp in SW London that has all these amazing opportunities, do share. Send me a PM if you don't want to name it. But I have been trying for years to find one and study their PE timetables carefully, but I have yet to find one that offers a wide range of competitive sports.

Why do you need a wide range of competitive sports? How many sports can your daughter possibly do to a competitive level? She will be exhausted if you're expecting her to go to a very academic school and perform competitively in multiple sports.

@foxesandsquirrels, of course I don't want her to do all of them, just have a wide enough range that she can compete in one or two on a regular basis. I mean not a school that has a 30min fun table tennis or badminton club at lunchtime (although that is of course nice) but a school where she can represent one or two teams in fixtures regularly (two fixtures per month would be great).
For example, Tiffin Girls has a tennis club but it is limited to the best 4 players in the year (out of 180?), so you can basically rule that out. I was surprised also that Ricards Lodge, for example, doesn't seem to have a hockey club, even though they have an astroturf that they rent out to Wimbledon Hockey (I am assumig this might change with coaching offered in return to pitch hire).

Back to the original questions about benefits at private v state with those schools named specifically.

There will be differences in demographics that you will need to weigh up depending on your own ethnicity and wishlist. I imagine Guildford is much less diverse than Wimbledon which itself will be much less diverse than Nonsuch.

As already noted class sizes will be a thing as will GCSE options - not so much the range of what is offered but the inability to do x with y etc. The communication from the school will be very state-schoolish if you come from a prep school as will your access to teachers.

You should also take seriously the pressure some of these girls are under - not so relevant in your case as you have chosen two hot housey privates as well so I assume you are on board with that.

I would also bear in mind that it is relatively easy to move from Nonsuch to a private if it doesnt work out, almost impossible to move the other way.

@sanam2019 if you PM me I can tell you about those I know as sports coach - but I am not in London. There are some comps doing brilliant sports some not so brilliant, some privates doing lots of sports, some privates not.

DD is at Nonsuch and she loves it - but it isnt for everyone. It isnt even really the hothousing of it but its the students themselves. The level of work they produce and want to produce across the board in all subjects is amazing and I imagine it can be a lonely place if your daughter doesnt suit it.

Wimbledon is a step up from that - it is an amazing school for the right child but you do need to be the right child

@sanam2019 I am not trying to defend the state of PE in state schools. I think is diabolical and I wish my DD had more of it. She has no chance of becoming more sporty and I think if she was at a non selective private, this could potentiality be different. The girls in teams at her school seem to be born athletic. Fo example she hates netball as she can't understand the rules. Instead of the teacher explaining them to her carefully she would just bench her.

As for rental, I'm not surprised they rent it out. Comps are stuffed financially and rental income is how a lot of London schools stay afloat. This may not be in exchange for coaching as most club coaches have daytime jobs so can't commit to that sort of setup. This is the case with many London privates. At least in N London many privates rent out their gyms and pools to the public after hours, the ones that have them do anyway.
I am not familiar with SE schools as we are N London but I think you need to be careful about going to private if its just for sport/ more extra curricular. If you are looking at selective privates, they tend to be selective in everything, including sports. The academically softer ones may not be suitable for a girl that's Tiffin material but the sport offer may be less rigid.
The extra curricular offer only really pays in KS3 ie Y7, 8 and sometimes 9. The GCSE curriculum is very tiring and not many girls have enough time to keep up with sports and studies.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself a bit, but I think what can be overlooked is the benefits of a wider extra curricular offer for those pupils who aren't particularly into sport etc. I agree that a kid who's got a real interest in football or netball or whatever will find a way to pursue it - whether that's by making the school team or by joining an outside club. But where a child doesn't have a particular passion, then a school with loads of sport, music and drama that's compulsory within the curriculum and/or very easily accessible outside it, can have huge benefits for that less keen/talented child who wouldn't have the inclination to join a weekend club and doesn't want to pursue that particular activity at a high level, but gets an awful lot out of participation.

If you are looking at selective privates, they tend to be selective in everything, including sports. That hasn't been our experience at all (very inclusive EC offering at a very academic school), but doubtless it varies - which is again why you need to look carefully at your actual school options.

DDs go to Nonsuch and there are loads of clubs. Sadly my DDs aren’t interested in any anymore.

@LadyWithLapdog why not? Did they lose interest? Did they feel there was too much homework and they didn't have time? Did they do hockey/netball/swimming in the early years? Are there annual drama productions they take (or took) part in? Thanks!

@sanam2019 most teenagers lose interest after about the end of Year 8 for a variety of reasons unless they are really into the club. By that time the clubs are dominated by the really good as said upthread, it isnt cool to go to them and they want to spend time socialising instead.

@ChristopherTracy I wonder if that is more likely to happen at state schools, though? I can't imagine this at the likes of KGS or WHS but then DD is 10 and I probably can't imagine her being a teenager. But I will be surprised if she won't be happy to join a drama club or art club at the very least. Maybe it says something about the culture at a school or the quality of the extracurricular provision if most kids drop out at the end of year 8?

I think it is just growing up - Year 8 sounds early but I know I dropped out of mine when I hit 15/16

I regret it now but its just what happens

@sanam2019 they just lost interest, I think. One also dropped out of her favourite sport out of school, even before coronavirus. Now the younger says she doesn’t want to start it again either.

My kids comp were National x country girls champions several years in a row. Also frequently last 16 of boys football nationally. And county hockey champs a few times. Have 5 netball teams for each year in KS3 and all get regular games (normally). Lots of cricket, handball, rugby, athletics, trampolining, fencing etc. Big school so lots of opportunities to try something new. Play in local league with lots of private schools. And county leagues with everyone.

DD is at WHS- I'd agree with the dropping out of clubs! Lots of enthusiasm in Year 7 and possibly Year 8 but pretty much zero by Y9! Still does drama but far too cool for the Dance, netball etc that she did before....
But...there are still a lots of her peers who are passionate about music, physics etc etc and probably do still go to the more niche clubs. She is just more interested in tiktok and Netflix! She hates virtual clubs so has promised to try and so a couple more when they are back to 'normal' but we shall see...
She has friends at state and private school. They all seem to be similar!
Very happy with the school though!

@mumsneedwine, is this in/near London? Sounds great. Care to share the name?

@rolloutthebarrel, I can totally understand they are not into online clubs, it's probably depressing as it is so clearly not the same at all. Regarding netball, do you think girls lost interest across the board or would you say that the girls in the A&B teams keep going and the C&D etc girls drop out over time?