STEM degrees (without A level chemistry)

[BlackBrowedAlbatross]

DS is in Y12 and doing maths, physics, biology A levels. He was planning on doing physics at university, but really only loves the bits about space, so is not particularly enjoying the A level (and not doing that well at it either).

When I suggested that he could look at other degree options if he wasn't sure about physics he just sighed and said, but what else could I do?

Slightly dramatic I know, but I think he's a bit sad that things aren't turning out how he thought they would. So any suggestions that might perk him up would be gratefully received. And despite the thread title, doesn't really have to be STEM. I'd just like to show him that there are loads of options for him to explore, things he's never thought of or maybe even never heard of. 🤞

Try here?

www.theuniguide.co.uk/a-level-explorer/biology/mathematics/physics?o=102

Well Astrophysics/Planetary Science/Space Science jump immediately to mind if he likes the space part of physics.

Engineering would be an obvious choice for the maths/physics.

Also have a look here (it suggests which degree subjects students taking a combination of A Levels typically go on to study - ranging from obvious to more obscure). www.theuniguide.co.uk/a-level-explorer

Worth looking at Natural Sciences at Durham University- lots of options.

Thank you all, much appreciated

I'm not 100% on entry requirements so there may be some errors but off the top of my head...

Space science, astronomy etc

Maths or allied subjects - MORSE, actuarial studies, probably some options around data science and stats at undergrad level these days.

Soc Sci is full of subjects that don't have very specific prequisites. Psychology, economics, business studies, politics I'd have thought. Law.

Engineering is a huge field with tonnes of options. I bet many don't require chemistry.

My friends who did physics (back in the day) used to complain that they had to do more maths than the mathematicians. Maths did seem a much easier degree and people went on from that into accountancy, teaching, statistician roles, mathematical modelling, data science, law.

Vocational stuff like physiotherapy, occupational therapy, radiology, optometry, midwifery, nursing. Some of these may need chemistry, I'm not sure, but obviously the biggie is that he'd have to want the career.

Do you have any feel yet for what sort of grades he might get in the subjects he's doing? Being realistic, there's probably not much point looking at Durham Natural sciences if he's not doing too well at the physics but that doesn't mean there aren't other good options.

And apart from liking the space bits of physics, is there anything else he's into?
Any clues from hobbies etc?

Engineering is a huge field with tonnes of options. I bet many don't require chemistry.

Only chem eng, and maybe materials engineering need chemistry, for the others it's usually good maths and physics. But there are courses with all sorts of grade requirements, leading to decent job prospects.

Comp sci and other software related type of things too.

Thank you, these are really helpful and should give him some great ideas and some hope that all is not lost.

At the moment he isn't doing very well at all - turns out he is not really managing online school and just not doing the work. And feeling crap but sticking his head in the sand and not letting on. We got a report sent home yesterday which he wasn't expecting, so it has all suddenly come to light. But he got two A stars and an A in these subjects at gcse so I am hopeful he can fix things and catch up, maybe not to Durham standards now but AAB or something might be possible if he can turn things around. I'm hoping to speak to the physics teacher next week to see what he thinks also. Between us we did all those A levels and DH did a physics degree so we can cheer him on and support him if he needs it.

He has always wanted to do something where he can discover things, or make some kind of breakthrough, so I think something cutting edge sciencey, whether that's space or neuroscience or nuclear engineering or mapping oceans (really plucking things from the air here!) would probably suit him better than eg accountancy or business. He's not into computers unless there's a game involved. A typical laid-back lad who loves football (but is not a super duper sportsman), films and sleeping and misses his friends.

I did wonder about physics as a degree, it just seems so hard! And he was planning on Manchester 🤯

Oh bless him, that sounds hard. We are only a month into remote teaching so there's no reason why it can't be recoverable now that it's been spotted. School hopefully will be able to help too.

Just another thought. If he is overwhelmed with lockdown schooling already, it might just be too much for him to imagine a whole different life right now. He might just be responding with a reflex "no" to everything you suggest because that is all his brain can handle. When people are depressed they are told to focus on short term, immediate goals, and similarly I think a lot of us are coping by just taking it one day at a time at the moment. My son certainly is. It might be more manageable just to focus on his lessons for now - maybe he could set some goals like attending all his lessons this week, doing his homework, maybe do one catch up piece. And if it all goes really pear-shaped, a year out to sort things out is not the end of the world and might just take the pressure off. Apologies, I know it's not what you asked about.

That said, oceanography looks v interesting :)

It's so tough for them at the moment, isn't it? But it sounds like he's got good support.
He has always wanted to do something where he can discover things, or make some kind of breakthrough, so I think something cutting edge sciencey, whether that's space or neuroscience or nuclear engineering or mapping oceans (really plucking things from the air here!) would probably suit him better than eg accountancy or business

The reality of science is that there are lots of incremental 'breakthroughs', a lot of teamwork, and a good deal of of serendipity or sheer luck in whether you're in the right place at the right time for the sort of thing that make headlines! But it all adds up.

Optometry was something that came to my mind immediately as it's a good blend of biology and physics. As others have said there are loads of options within engineering that don't require chemistry. Or what about a more biology based degree like marine bology? If he is interested in space, there are astronomy degrees.
It is early days for him yet, and 2 sciences and maths will open lots of doors, so I wouldn't worry too much yet.

Or another thought - would he be interested in meteorology/geophysics? Lots of research going on in that field and a quick google suggests that maths and physics are the key A levels there.

@Murmurur

Oh bless him, that sounds hard. We are only a month into remote teaching so there's no reason why it can't be recoverable now that it's been spotted. School hopefully will be able to help too.

Just another thought. If he is overwhelmed with lockdown schooling already, it might just be too much for him to imagine a whole different life right now. He might just be responding with a reflex "no" to everything you suggest because that is all his brain can handle. When people are depressed they are told to focus on short term, immediate goals, and similarly I think a lot of us are coping by just taking it one day at a time at the moment. My son certainly is. It might be more manageable just to focus on his lessons for now - maybe he could set some goals like attending all his lessons this week, doing his homework, maybe do one catch up piece. And if it all goes really pear-shaped, a year out to sort things out is not the end of the world and might just take the pressure off. Apologies, I know it's not what you asked about.

That said, oceanography looks v interesting :)

Thank you @Murmurur, this is such a good point. I think everything is a bit overwhelming at the moment and I need to be careful about adding to it all by giving the impression he should know right now what he wants to do next. I hadn't thought of that.

Agree with murmurur too. V difficult to know what to do when you are 16-17yo and the pressure of making a decision that sets out the rest of your life is daunting!

Is he set on going to uni? The world is going to make it difficult, but maybe a gap year or work placement might help. Deferring one year, if he can find something to do with it, might let him see the working world and give a break from the pressure.

He's got a good set of subjects, a difficult mix. He can probably pick any dregree!

Why did he initially pick physics?
I did it at uni. The A level exam was awful and I worried I'd failed or made a mistake picking physics. Got an A. The first year in uni was mostly catching everyone up to the same level, it was relatively easy compared to a levels. There is a common first year too so easy to switch between the physics degrees (astro, bio, theoretical, acoustic). He could maybe mix degrees too and stick to one subject after first year (my physics classmates did joint maths, music and chemistry).

Very grateful for all these suggestions and will definitely just frame it as: hey look, there are loads of other interesting things you could do if you decide in the end that straight physics isn't quite right. And then leave him to explore some ideas if he wants.

I don't want him to abandon the idea of physics, which has been his plan for ages, and then feel like there's nothing in its place and no point working hard iyswim.

Thinking about it, this started last term so it's not just a lockdown thing (although online school has made it much worse). He does have a lot to do. There is time and it would be great if he could start Y13 all square and with some decent predicted grades, but it's a big step to go from not doing the work to not only doing the work but also catching up, isn't it.

Love the idea of meteorology!

It sounds like an apprenticeship may be more his thing. There seems to be a few space ones when I looked for my daughter.

@ErrolTheDragon

It's so tough for them at the moment, isn't it? But it sounds like he's got good support. He has always wanted to do something where he can discover things, or make some kind of breakthrough, so I think something cutting edge sciencey, whether that's space or neuroscience or nuclear engineering or mapping oceans (really plucking things from the air here!) would probably suit him better than eg accountancy or business

The reality of science is that there are lots of incremental 'breakthroughs', a lot of teamwork, and a good deal of of serendipity or sheer luck in whether you're in the right place at the right time for the sort of thing that make headlines! But it all adds up.

I think / hope he knows that big scientific breakthroughs are usually the result of lots of people working for years and years and that work is not going to be like Back to the Future 😂

(Although when he was younger he used to say things like "when I invent time travel or how to mine asteroids, I will get you another dog Mum" NB another dog is the last thing I want or need )

I think he wants the feeling of doing something important, which is a great ambition to have I reckon, even though most people do end up doing something a bit less exciting than mining asteroids and even Elon Musk probably has quite a few boring days.

Thanks @Thack that's interesting about physics. I think it's space that he's interested in really. He says he wants to study physics, he just doesn't really like physics A level. Absolutely detests electrical circuits.

He definitely wants to go to university but I think a year out would be a good idea actually, he's quite young in some ways and obviously a bit behind his friends in terms of being able to manage his work and motivate himself. Plus he could apply with grades in hand if his predictions aren't too good. I think six months of work and saving up and then six months travelling, or volunteering abroad somewhere would be amazing for him.

Apprenticeships look interesting too, thanks @lovelemoncurd, I will have a look.

It's hard at that age isn't it, when everyone else seems to be doing ok but you think you're messing up your whole life

I think it is also always worth remembering that it isn't the end of the world if you don't get things quite right first time BlackBrowedAlbatross, though as you say, when you are 16 or 17 it is hard to see that. And to be fair, sometimes schools reinforce those thoughts.
My DH is a good example. After a very good set of O levels he got complacent, messed around in 6th form and did very badly in his A levels. He certainly felt he had ruined his life when all his friends went off to University and he didn't. But he went to the local college to resit and did much better, but still narrowly missed the grades for his University offer. He admits that by then he was just desperate to get away to do anything, anywhere so he took a place on a slightly different course at an institution he'd never even heard of before. And to cut a long story short he has ended up as a respected expert in his field, representing the UK on several international committees. It's not a job he even knew existed at 17, but he turned out to be very good at it!
Not that I am saying that A levels don't matter - but that many roads lead to Rome and that you're not doomed if you don't have your life planned out by the time you are a 6th former.
I'm having exactly this conversation with my year 13 son at the moment in fact. He does have some offers but isn't really certain what he wants to do, especially as Covid has messed things up so much and he's not been able to visit anywhere. It's good he has options open but if he wants to take a gap year and think things through more that's fine by me. Everything is so weird at the moment, and being a year "behind" really is not a big issue. There are so many options out there and the conventional pathway of straight to University after school and then straight into work is only one of them. I think a lot of young people are feeling confused and a bit disillusioned right now, and it is very early days for your DS so whilst it is much easier said than done, don't worry too much.

Thank you @MrsAvocet I really appreciate that and your DH's story is inspiring!

I think at the moment we'll try to focus on the small wins, getting up on time, attending all the lessons, getting work in on time, doing a bit of catching up in his free periods. It's hard sometimes to walk that fine line between the kindness but also the boot up the arse that he needs.

When your Ds feels more positive about making plans for the future he might want to look at this range of www.herts.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate-courses/undergraduate-subject-areas/aerospace-engineering

They sound like they might suit his interests? Hertfordshire is not one of the top unis usually but I think is very good in this area (perhaps because there used to be lots of aeronautical industry nearby).

I know someone who is currently doing their post grad there part time (their day job is some sort of secret squirrel satellite stuff)

Hertfordshire is not one of the top unis usually but I think is very good in this area (perhaps because there used to be lots of aeronautical industry nearby).

Airbus Defence and Space is in Stevenage .

😉

Ooh that sounds very interesting thank you, and the secrecy adds a certain je ne sais quoi 🐿

I actually think those courses at Herts are right up his alley so thanks again.