STEM degrees (without A level chemistry)

[BlackBrowedAlbatross]

DS is in Y12 and doing maths, physics, biology A levels. He was planning on doing physics at university, but really only loves the bits about space, so is not particularly enjoying the A level (and not doing that well at it either).

When I suggested that he could look at other degree options if he wasn't sure about physics he just sighed and said, but what else could I do?

Slightly dramatic I know, but I think he's a bit sad that things aren't turning out how he thought they would. So any suggestions that might perk him up would be gratefully received. And despite the thread title, doesn't really have to be STEM. I'd just like to show him that there are loads of options for him to explore, things he's never thought of or maybe even never heard of. 🤞

You’re welcome. I’m sure there are other unis offering similar if he feels his grades warrant trying somewhere higher up the league tables - maybe Bristol as there is/was a strong local aviation industry there too.

I agree Herts is good for aviation but it's an industry that has been very hard hit by covid. It's not going to be the most secure of sectors for some time.

Yes, I don't know how much the space-type divisions will be affected or if they're somewhat separate from aviation as such. I wouldn't have thought the demand for satellites would be reduced.

I'm a geophysicist who did a geology degree. The undergrad included everything from: fossils, evolution, atomic physics, fluid dynamics, evolution of the solar system, oceans, chemistry. And lots of running up and down mountains.

Fair point @ErrolTheDragon , I have mainly dealt with the aviation side.

@geophys

I'm a geophysicist who did a geology degree. The undergrad included everything from: fossils, evolution, atomic physics, fluid dynamics, evolution of the solar system, oceans, chemistry. And lots of running up and down mountains.

Oh this sounds like a lot of fun too! So glad I posted, you have all come up with really useful suggestions that could potentially be more appealing than physics.

The state of aviation is a good point. He won't be starting until 2022 or 2023 so that gives a bit of time to see what happens in the sector but I wonder whether it will ever be quite the same.

I did those A levels and went on to study Engineering.

So many different disciplines possible without chemistry- mechanical, civil, electrical etc, plus some which sound quite niche but actually span several engineering disciplines such as Biomedical, Aerospace, automotive etc.

Biomedical engineering is a very interesting field, and I think it will get even more interesting in the near future.

@geophys

I'm a geophysicist who did a geology degree. The undergrad included everything from: fossils, evolution, atomic physics, fluid dynamics, evolution of the solar system, oceans, chemistry. And lots of running up and down mountains.

I know an astrogeologist. A bit niche and I don't think she gets to go on many field trips.

@SquishySquirmy

Biomedical engineering is a very interesting field, and I think it will get even more interesting in the near future.

Thank you @SquishySquirmy this sounds very interesting and I had never heard of it as a branch of engineering.

Earth sciences / environmental sciences could be a good fit and a growth area (DH and I are both earth scientists - he did exploration, I did ground / environmental engineering).

Civil / mechanical / design engineering could be options?

I keep sticking Scottish university links on these threads due to the broad nature of the first year.
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/physics-astronomy/news/title-113265-en.php

DS is doing the same A levels. Oceanography does look interesting & has a high physics content apparently.

He can always take a year out... this year?

What's worrying is that if he's been letting things slip that his teachers might just give him bad CAGs this year. Are they putting anything in place for him to be able to show an improved performance? Normally students can totally mess up in mocks then pull a blinder in the real exam and so the school need to be able to let him show a turnaround if he is capable. He may be feeling totally despondent if he thinks there is no way of upping what they have already decided for him.

Sounds like you need a good chat with his teachers, not just a shock report

More great suggestions, thanks everyone. Earth sciences sounds fascinating to me.

I think he's hoping to avoid redoing Y12 @3aday. I've contacted his year tutor and asked to speak to his teachers. We are in Wales so he will get an AS grade this year, decided by his school. That's the bad news as they are unlikely to be good. But you can choose whether the AS grades become part of the final A level grade, so that might help. Plus if he gets his act together and does better in Y13 he could always take a year off and apply with grades in hand if his predictions are not great.

But yes you're right, first step is definitely a chat with the teachers. They have a rule that if something is handed in late it won't get marked, so I need to persuade them to mark all the stuff he hasn't done. He has woken up today feeling positive and his goal today is to do everything set in his lessons plus one piece of catch up. 🤞

He clearly has great support at home, which is an excellent start in itself. Best of luck to him.

My DH is a civil and structural engineer. Civil also looks at drainage and environmental solutions. You could also look at Environmental science. There is a great demand for environmental design in this country. Also aeronautical engineering will take years to get back on track due to Covid. Could be a risk. Civil engineering isn’t overly competitive at lower ranking RG universities.

There is also building services design. Air conditioning etc. None of these are discovering anything but they are solutions to problems. Particularly environmental engineering.

Geology is a good shout too. Plenty of work for them. I sometimes think young DC see Brian Cox and think that’s what they want without realising the hoops they go through to get to his specialism.

The Life Scientific episode with Prof Chris Jackson is worth a listen.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r3n0

Also aeronautical engineering will take years to get back on track due to Covid. Could be a risk

There will probably be a load of graduates from last year and current aero students marking time with MScs and PhDs wanting jobs in the next few years too.

On a different slant - one of the great things about STEM degrees is that you may develop an interest in some branch while you're doing it which you wouldn't know about at school, or which maybe doesn't even exist yet! I've been doing a job for over 30 years which really wasn't a thing when I was at school. A degree can be a stepping stone on a defined path, but more likely it opens out to lots of different destinations.

Of course, Aeronautical or Aersopace Engineering by no means has to lead to a career in the aviation industry!

I have found that an engineering degree from a good university can get you a job in a completely different industry to your degree title. So even the niche sounding ones can be quite general - Aeronautics for example will include some mechanical modules, but also electrical, materials, group design projects, etc. These will be relevant to a range of different industries.

A good engineering (or other stem) degree can get you onto some amazing graduate programs in non-engineering industries.

So if your son's interest is piqued by a certain area, then I would say go for it. Most Engineering degrees are by no means a commitment to a specific career, and my experience has been that an engineering degree keeps options open.

Renewables might be another growth area to consider - although I don't think there are many undergraduate degrees that specialised in renewable engineering yet. There are some post graduate masters courses appearing though, which could be done after completing a different BEng.

I think there may be some good apprenticeships in the renewable energy industry, perhaps wind in particular if you think your son would be interested in an alternative to a degree. (Would he like the opportunity for hands on work, sometimes outdoors in the elements? Does he like heights?)

There are a few Energy and Environmental Engineering or Civil and Environmental BEng degree courses.

Friend with an aeronautical engineering degree is now a safety specialist, friend with a mech eng degree works as an environmental / renewables specialist.

Thank you Percy, I think you're right about Brian Cox. And for your great suggestions.

@ErrolTheDragon

Also aeronautical engineering will take years to get back on track due to Covid. Could be a risk

There will probably be a load of graduates from last year and current aero students marking time with MScs and PhDs wanting jobs in the next few years too.

On a different slant - one of the great things about STEM degrees is that you may develop an interest in some branch while you're doing it which you wouldn't know about at school, or which maybe doesn't even exist yet! I've been doing a job for over 30 years which really wasn't a thing when I was at school. A degree can be a stepping stone on a defined path, but more likely it opens out to lots of different destinations.

DH made exactly this point when we were chatting last night - nobody on R4 The Life Scientific seems to be working in the field they picked as undergraduates!

You also have to factor in that lots of engineering grads end up in finance or the City. It can be big headache for SME's to get the right people. Engineers are solutions people and can do very well outside engineering. Only one of DD's friends who did engineering at university is actually an engineer. Very many do not do Engineering after Oxford, for example. It is a very flexible degree but as the best ones are 4 years you have to prefer it to, say, Management.

I wouldn’t be thinking about university yet as it sounds like it’s just extra pressure that he can’t deal with at the moment. You’ve plenty of time, especially if he takes a gap year. You need to focus on right now, getting him caught back up and back on track. Is it the work he’s struggling with or more his mental health?
I would leave worrying about it for now and focus on it this time next year when you’ll have a better idea of what his grades will be.

My son is studying for an M.Eng in Mechatronics at Lancaster. He did not take chemistry A level. He did chemistry in his first year at university though (they studied all aspects of engineering).
He was offered an internship interview at AMG in his second year but couldn't attend due to personal reasons.
He spent a year in industry with Airbus, which he thoroughly enjoyed. He should have had a summer internship studying robotics in the nuclear fuel industry but Covid stopped that.
There are options without chemistry. He should follow his interests if he can. The first year of a STEM degree is a baptism of fire according to my sons. (The middle one did Physics at Lancaster and he loved physics).