Part 2: SW London Girl's Indies 11+ Pandemic Panic!

[MumsRule20]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3962084-Upcoming-girls-independent-SW-London-schools-11-exams?pg=40

Hello all, this thread continues from the previous "Upcoming Girl's Independent SW London Schools 11+ Exams" thread set up by @Oceane11Plus.

@PatoPato cleverly noticed, message slots were running low for the epic long thread as above, so all chat now continues here...

[Post edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

@Corblimbea Numbers for LEH this year seem to be 210 offers for approximately 70 external places, 3x offer ratio, so very much in line with your prep head info.

@yev231 where did you hear that number for LEH? I’m surprised they offered to so many

Were the questions at WHS last night written by parents or did they speak them? Just interested! Suspect if it had been a 'normal' offers evening there would have been less hardcore questions as they would have had to be in person! My DD would have been mortified if I'd asked anything although we didn't get to go as she was on the WL! I remember a girl at the G&L open day desperately asking her mother to stop asking ridiculous questions and almost crying as her mother had been so rude to the staff and other parents there.
I also remember asking the girls who took us round at WHS if all the girls were brilliant at everything- they were very reassuring that most weren't!
I think I asked that everywhere actually..
When I think about all the kids from the DC's state primary- they are all just normal children with normal parents and they went to all the schools mentioned on these threads.
There are a terrifying set of unbelievably pushy parents in London but fortunately they are not the majority I think. Also, you have far less contact at Senior school so may never come across them if you don't want to!

Keep mentioning WHS as have DD there- great school but so are the others. I still think journey is one of the most important things.

I have a DS at a Co-Ed mentioned on this thread as well. Before he started I would read how they're all uber confident, great at Drama, music etc, wouldn't suit a quiet type. But again, just seems to be a normal cross section of 11/12 year olds.

Have fun deciding all! And feel free to Pm if any questions on WHS or LU.

@yev231 that number doesn't seem right as they interviewed around 270 . Does that mean that they gave offer to almost all if there are 210 offers ?

@SouthLondonMommy I would say if you can get a place at one of your outstanding primaries to take it 100% for your child to have a non pressured, enjoyable yet obvs aspirational ‘education’ (seeing they are great state options which will probably offer fab facilities and varied learning opportunities) and let her enjoy those precious years of childhood with the emphasis being solely on paid for academics. Save your money. Have some wonderful holidays and experiences, remembering travel is the best education you can offer your child and then try for 11+ if private is what you / your DC wants at that stage. You will have a better idea of who she is and her capabilities at the later age and be able to then choose a school accordingly. If she is of measure, she and you will survive the 11+ process and get a place!

@SouthLondonMommy also to say who knows if you will even be in London or what might happen all those years down the line!

@SouthLondonMommy If I'm understanding correctly and your DD is not yet in year 6 then absolutely take one of the junior places at Alleyns or Jags. We turned down PHS junior a few years ago and now find DD is on the Waitlist for both PHS and WHS. Not a great feeling.
This is in spite of going to a very good prep and a child that didn't especially struggle. She only struggled with missing school when the pandemic hit - but I think all the children did. Many children at our prep also had tutoring in varying degrees which I found bizarre but less so now they have all the offers!
Otherwise go for an outstanding prep and decide later. But obviously you will need to tutor/ prepare and get her focused.

@southlondonmommy I would absolutely take a prep place now if it meant you didn’t have to go through the 11+ but had guaranteed entry to a sought-after secondary. My DD has been successful in the 11+ (four offers and no waitlist/rejection so far) but it’s still been a hugely stressful process for us and her, and the sole focus of her schooling for the last 12 months. If your child is at a school where they don’t have to do 11+ prep because they already have a place guaranteed then they’re free to explore more interesting subjects rather than just drilling maths, English and reasoning to the exclusion of everything else.

@Flossietea and @eglantine7 yes my DD has an offer for Jags junior which should guarantee her a place at the senior school (they don't need to pass the exam anymore but if they don't think you are up to scratch they may 'suggest' you look elsewhere around year 5 though apparently this is rare).

If we got Alleyns its definitely a guaranteed place but we won't know about that assessment until tomorrow.

I'm thinking that despite having great primaries, since we can afford it, we should just join a through school now and avoid the stress.

@SouthLondonMommy yes, absolutely. That would be the smartest move to avoid the madness in year 6. They are both fabulous schools and although I have no doubt you are near some fantastic state primaries to have a pretty much guaranteed place at a sought-after senior school would be wonderful for all of you.

two thirds of those interviewed sounds way too much as they would have interviewed atleast 300 if not more . 200 offers for 60 places ?

that number doesn't seem right as they interviewed around 270 . Does that mean that they gave offer to almost all if there are 210 offers ?

Schools that limit interviews generally make offers to 2/3 to 3/4 of interviewees. Flipping those numbers upside down, they usually interview something like 133 to 150 children for every 100 places they expect to offer. The exams are the primary filter for these schools; there's not much point in calling in children whose personalities will not be able to overcome their exam results.

As for how many offers PHS needs to make, Falkner House reports that their girls received 10 offers last year, only 1 of which was accepted. Kensington Prep reports that their girls received 20 offers, only 3 of which were accepted. Back when they also used to report offers along with acceptances, Bute House and Glendower girls regularly got 20 places, very few of which were taken up. So girls from those four schools alone might decline 45 out of 50 offers.

Anyone know what the ratio of offers to interviewees is for LU? Presumably lower than PHS as it'll be more people's first choice.

@SouthLondonMommy

From my experience, I think a good state primary has many advantages (basically no homework so lots of time for other interests, local friends, short commute to school, mixed environment, no fees). If doing it again, I would stick with state primary and then move to selective secondary.

I didn’t find it super stressful doing 11+. I’ve definitely done more stressful things at work, though it was a bit hard not to obsess about it as it was all so uncertain. And I did have a bit of a worry about finding the right tutor (ended up DIYing in the end). The tricky bit was mostly the scheduling - things like getting forms in on time, getting time off work to take dd to so many different places at different times etc.

@flumeplume that's interesting. From what the schools say there isn't a lot of homework at primary. They are both a short walk from our house and full of local Dulwich children from what I can tell.

My main concern is if it is just a waste of money versus an outstanding state school at primary. I've even heard some parents say some of our local state primaries are pushier than the private schools.

However, the ever escalating war for places seems to be increasing the amount of prep and tutoring every year for the 11+ and the money might be worth it to avoid the pressure for DD.

I might just be soft as where I grew up schooling wasn't anything like London. It all seems so much at 10 years old.

[quote SouthLondonMommy]@flumeplume that's interesting. From what the schools say there isn't a lot of homework at primary. They are both a short walk from our house and full of local Dulwich children from what I can tell.

My main concern is if it is just a waste of money versus an outstanding state school at primary. I've even heard some parents say some of our local state primaries are pushier than the private schools.

However, the ever escalating war for places seems to be increasing the amount of prep and tutoring every year for the 11+ and the money might be worth it to avoid the pressure for DD.

I might just be soft as where I grew up schooling wasn't anything like London. It all seems so much at 10 years old.[/quote]
At private primary you are paying for smaller class sizes and a higher staff to kids ratio. You may get more sport.

Consider what will happen at 11+ if you decide you want coed or a change - will your private primary support your move or will you end up tutoring at home?

@SouthLondonMommy I only ever knew the world of private schooling from my own education and so sending my child to a state school went against all that I knew. Also she has been at one which is not outstanding and children of many needs. Yet this has given her an ability to hold her own in the real world and given her skills a private school or money cannot buy. She has faced distractions and disruptions from a large class of 30, but as a child they know no different, to her this is normal and she loves her school. Many children I know who have gone from state to private at 11+ have done so without heavily tutoring, just a gentle weekly 1hr from Yr 5 and some a bit earlier and have achieved scholarships including academic at leading independent secondary schools. If your child has a love for learning and is naturally bright they will do well wherever they go and they will pass the 11+ if it works in their favour on that day or to their general academic ability /
potential. If they don’t or have needed to be over tutored and over prepped, then I would worry that they will struggle at a selective secondary school. So guess depends on where you have in mind. Essentially when I look back now and having almost come to an end of the 11+ process for my state primary DD, despite all the state struggles at one which is not outstanding - I am so grateful she has had that for her “early years” and not overburdened with schooling in the way I possibly was. Homework is non existent even in Year 6 at her school and sometimes I wondered if they ever did much “learning”, but I do know she is able to hold her own in so many ways and has the world at her feet. Nothing has been lost and so much to be gained.

To have the chance to attend an outstanding State primary in my view is an excellent opportunity (gold dust) and nothing lost at all. There is much time for a private education at any point later down the line if your child is able and with the smaller classes (only 6 children less than at a state school class). I really would question if it is worth paying for pre 11 and then all the way through and then Uni, unless of course you really can afford to and money is no issue and private ed is all that you know and want for your kids.

@MumsRule20 thanks for your perspective. We can comfortably afford the fees which makes it harder to turn down actually. We are both state educated so there isn't any snobbery in the decision and my daughter is pretty advanced for her age so I think she'll do fine.

I'm really just thinking about if is it worth paying to avoid the stress this must cause everyone, especially my DD when she's 10.

The different answers suggest it really comes down to how we all react to and view stress and there isn't just one right answer.

I love your post @MumsRule20 - so refreshing to see it like that! I also fall into the camp of preferring the switch at 11+. Staying at the same school from 4+/7+ to 18 years is a loooong time, and it's difficult to tell what school is the best fit when they're so young. But most of all, I think as parents we have to take responsibility for how our DC perceive the exam process...

Anyway, I wanted to share an interesting development with those waiting on the LEH waitlist. Rather than their normal set-up of four forms of 27 pupils (i.e. 108 in total), for the year 7/2021 intake they are now targeting six forms of 23-24 pupils. I'm heavily caveating this - I have no idea how this all works! - but maybe this will result in extra girls being accepted from the waitlist to fill the gaps.

Not sure how I feel about this change as that's a lot bigger year group, but I'm glad at least we've been informed in advance and I see the smaller classes as a positive thing for DD.

We've just received an email from JAGS, DD has an offer This is such a relief!

I was not expecting such an early morning email, I was bracing myself for refreshing my emails all day.
I hope all of you get the results you want today and tomorrow

Amazing news @Oceane11Plus ! Congratulations to your DD!

SCHS says they are posting results today on their website? Has anyone heard whether they are sending out emails instead (we've not had any post since Saturday so not holding out any hopes we'll hear any time soon if they are relying on the post!)

Congratulations @Oceane11Plus! Fabulous news, well done your DD.

Congrats @oceane11plus! Is that your first choice?

@Oceane11Plus we just got jags too!! A big surprise after the abysmal interview! I thought the offer email was quite formal compared to the GDST ones.. I’m thinking there might be some follow up in the post? I’d completely forgotten they were emailing us today until DH mentioned it late last night resulting in a sleepless night! @stellagibbons best of luck with the scholarship offer!!

@SouthLondonMommy my DD is ‘outstanding’ state educated. It worked very well until year 5 when she started getting quite frustrated with some of the less enthusiastic learners.. the ability and behaviour range is quite wide and HS has been an eye opener on what actual work they do (there is little extension and she’s frequently bored.). I think policies vary widely between schools so i don’t want to generalise, but I’d say ‘state till 8’ is growing in popularity where we live. For context, DD has gotten offers at 3 schools so far, she had 1 hour of tutoring a week.

@Oceane11Plus I’ve forgotten to say congratulations!!!