Part 2: SW London Girl's Indies 11+ Pandemic Panic!

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www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3962084-Upcoming-girls-independent-SW-London-schools-11-exams?pg=40

Hello all, this thread continues from the previous "Upcoming Girl's Independent SW London Schools 11+ Exams" thread set up by @Oceane11Plus.

@PatoPato cleverly noticed, message slots were running low for the epic long thread as above, so all chat now continues here...

[Post edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

I thought the online experience was very helpful last night at WHS, more so perhaps than if it was happening on site. Gave us a good feel for the co-curricular staff and the school ethos. Interesting that they allow extra GCSE to be taken if you are bilingual or take Mandarin as a club, and that they allow flexibility when choosing GCSEs. That's not the case at other schools.

Anyone else feel they were a little fed up of the idea that they should collaborate with KCS on buses / drama etc?

I thought PHS would have a waitlist that moves a lot as well. They offer to the all the high scoring girls who will be geographically positioned to accept Godolphin, Latymer Upper, St Paul's Girls as well as LEH and the grammar schools. To many in West London PHS is a very good back up. Many will choose Francis Holland ( the Art scholarships) and for personal choice over PHS as well.

@dinosaurinmybelly we thought the online format worked well too. The bus thing was new to us as the train is very easy. The Dulwich schools share so perhaps that’s where the concept has come from.

Weirdly, last night completely turned DH off the school. (He was gunning for it previously). In some ways this was helpful as I’ve always favoured Putney!

I agree that the over offer margin is usually very high for all but a few schools who are usually always first choice for those who apply.

@eglantine7 among those you know are Jags and Alleyns preferred over WHS and Putney typically?

From a 2019 thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3505309-Do-private-schools-always-over-offer "Dulwich said he is going to make 100 offers for 70 places"

I think WHS are usually conservative in their offers as they are very much constrained by their space on site - going to waitlist seems usual for them

@SouthLondonMommy I think it depends where you live? LEH and G&L seem to be favoured over WHS (and LU?)

I think if you are in Wandsworth there is a common misconception that Dulwich is easier to get to than schools to the West.. (Ibstock suffers from this too) but in reality the trains are far more frequent than the coaches..

@SouthLondonMommy
Certainly! There are West Londoners and Fulham parents who fell in love with JAGs and Alleyns and are willing to move or rely on the school bus for these schools.

@SouthLondonMommy the Dulwich schools have far bigger campus’s which are very impressive. @Oceane11Plus or @stellagibbons are good people to ask about Jags as I believe it’s a top choice for them.

@eglantine7 that's fascinating! I assumed those in West London who liked co-ed would have Latymer as their first choice (due to convenience) and apply to Alleyns just in case. Both are very difficult to get into so I can understand applying to both but I didn't think there was enough difference between them for location not to be the overriding consideration!

@AveEldon and @Stircrazyschoolmum very helpful to know!

@Stircrazyschoolmum I think the reason people prefer school buses is that there will be an assured seat and peer group but the trains can be can be quite busy in the morning especially the southwest trains and district line with commuter traffic and there is the added woes of disruptions and frequent breakdowns

Our prep head has told us that there would be a 3-4x offer ratio in most ‘mid tier’ schools in SW. so for 60 places 240 offers. They tend to get one in 4. Top tier (SPGS, JAGS, Alleyns) would be 1.5-2 - so 100-150 for 75 places. @Stircrazyschoolmum what turned your DH off? I’m currently in disagreement with DD’s dad over our first preference and waiting on the offer holders’ events for clarity, but only one school is offering anything! What did WHS do last night? More talks? (Not one we applied for).

@Stircrazyschoolmum You are spot on, as usual I am assuming all these schools are pretty similar academically/culturally but what swayed us towards JAGS is very simply its location (nearest school to us) and facilities/campus. I hope writing this is not going to bring us bad luck for tomorrow. Feeling stressed again all of a sudden

@Trialsat11 that’s a valid point. The concept of jumping on the bus and switching off is very attractive!

@Corblimbea it was nothing the school said or did. But ironically the questions asked by other parents around harps, saxophones, sports awards for non sports scholars etc that made DH (who quite liked the status aspect of such a high achieving school) have a rethink on whether truly it was the right ‘fit’.

It was our aspirational choice and my gut says our co-Ed state bright but not exceptional non instrumental non bilingual DD would be happier being a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

I’m still very torn on the JAGS/Alleyns front as it’s a path well trodden locally and the facilities are incredible. Jags intimidates me a bit as there is still so much talk around hothousing/self harm/ intense pressure but i absolutely didn’t get that feeling when I visited. The girls were so bouncy!! Alleyn’s is hard due to co-ed aspect and just bloody difficult to get an offer at. In some ways I’m wondering if the decision will make its self come Friday..

@SouthLondonMommy there are a bunch of West London parents out there who are very discerning about schools. I do think they will be less enthusiastic about choosing the Dulwich schools over the SPGS and Godolphin and LU ones because of the pandemic, but they have applied.

[quote Stircrazyschoolmum]@Trialsat11 that’s a valid point. The concept of jumping on the bus and switching off is very attractive!

@Corblimbea it was nothing the school said or did. But ironically the questions asked by other parents around harps, saxophones, sports awards for non sports scholars etc that made DH (who quite liked the status aspect of such a high achieving school) have a rethink on whether truly it was the right ‘fit’.

It was our aspirational choice and my gut says our co-Ed state bright but not exceptional non instrumental non bilingual DD would be happier being a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

I’m still very torn on the JAGS/Alleyns front as it’s a path well trodden locally and the facilities are incredible. Jags intimidates me a bit as there is still so much talk around hothousing/self harm/ intense pressure but i absolutely didn’t get that feeling when I visited. The girls were so bouncy!! Alleyn’s is hard due to co-ed aspect and just bloody difficult to get an offer at. In some ways I’m wondering if the decision will make its self come Friday..[/quote]
DD is at WHS. The parents are all pretty normal really and there are lots of non harp playing normal girls too, I promise!
I remember hating G&L open day because of the other parents there (and the girl's they wheeled out to speak!). WHS felt very down to earth in comparison!
The bus thing is interesting. DS nearly went to a school where he would have had to get a school bus. I am SO glad he doesn't! The pressure of having to make it every morning would have finished me off.
Both mine get public transport. It has meant they are able to socialise after school if they want, they have got used to public transport around London etc.

@dinosaurinmybelly
generally native speakers take their language GCSE early generally in year 10, in the case of my DC as early as year 8 and year 9, then follow the same path as the cohort, so with 3x sciences and additional maths, making it up to 12x GCSEs

I believe WHS includes computing as one of the sciences, so all girls are said to take 3 sciences but that can include Computer sciences (dropping one traditional science)

@Stircrazyschoolmum We also think DD will much more confident and happier as a bigger fish in a small pond which is why we haven't applied to some of the uber-academic schools. What you mention about JAGS being very academically pressured was true 10 years ago but that has changed. We know many families with (very normal) DDs at the school and they've all said it's not an academic hot house. If anything the first few years are quite relaxed and the pressure ramps up very gradually.

May I know any of the girls' schools discussed here requires a reference from the primary school? Thanks!

@Stircrazyschoolmum - yes, JAGS is our first choice. Like @Oceane11Plus location (and ease of travel) was the biggest factor for us - we wanted DD to go to a school that she had a choice of ways to get there via public transport, plus could walk back from in an absolute pinch. We didn't go down the Alleyns route simply because I thought DD would potentially get lost among some of the bigger personalities there - JAGS feels to me that they would get more out of someone of DD's personality type (quiet, studious, loves sciences, just gets on with it with very little drama). Ultimately, depending on what happens tomorrow, I think we'll actually be choosing between indie and state and whether the value added is worth the fees.

@Stircrazyschoolmum thank you. I totally agree about the small pond! We ruled out a number of schools based on ‘pushiness’. I just want DD to be happy and confident, but mostly to be known. We have been so lucky in a smallish prep and she’s blossomed but still in the upper average range. I want a balance of seeing her strengths but not feeling she is always competing with others. Was it just q and a session? I’m wondering how schools are going to showcase to offer holders without on site visits. I almost feel it’s impossible.

@uk2020 I’m pretty sure all schools require a reference from the primary school. Certainly every school we applied to did.

@uk2020 the schools we applied to required either a reference or a copy of their Yr 5 report.

@2atschool that’s very reassuring to hear. And given DD’s atrocious time keeping public transport would suit us!

@Corblimbea it was a heads talk and a carousel of department speakers (sport/drama/music) unfortunately there was only 10 mins for each so Q&A got rushed.. there is a session for the girls with y8 today which DD is looking forward to.. I’m hoping they’ve chosen a balanced mix of personalities.

@stellagibbons @Oceane11Plus your experiences of jags reflect my own.. we wouldn’t have applied had we had strong concerns.. I sensed they really ‘got’ girls - particularly those with perfectionist tendencies, they told me DD would have to do her homework at school if she spent too long on it at home.. and she would get 20 minutes!!

stircrazyschoolmum that is so funny. I had the same reaction as your DH to WHS last night. I had thought of WHS as very down-to-earth, but again, some of the questions unnerved me. The music director also mentioned that DD might be in a music class with Grade 8 musicians suggesting that this added to the richness of the experience. Not for DD - she's a keen musician who doesn't like the grade competition, so him highlighting that put her off. Grade 8 aged 10 - those musicians will certainly be wanting a different kind of experience in their music class surely...

We were late for the sport discussion so didn't hear about opportunities for non-scholars versus scholars. However did think it was really cute that some of the DDs recognized each other and were talking off mute at one point.

I did like the discussion on pastoral care at the end between the Head and the Pastoral lead. I got the impression they were evolving, always reflecting and considering good practice on the pastoral side - I tend to feel safer with that approach, rather than the "we've got this covered" rhetoric.

All very interesting about Jags as my dd has just been accepted into the junior school. We are waiting on Alleyns assessment result too and are also in the catchment of two outstanding state primaries. I'm on here in part to figure out:

1. how difficult the 11+ experience is and if its worth spending the money to avoid it since we can afford to despite having amazing state options. If you could have avoided the 11+ including the prep and stress for the kids, would you have in hindsight and finances allowing?

1. What Jags and potentially Allenys are like. Because of Covid we've never set foot in Jags! Also, given it might be her forever school anything I can learn about the senior schools is helpful.

Good luck to you and all your girls!