A Levels combination for languages at university?

[Whathappenedtothelego]

(Not my DC but my opinion has been sought.)

Teen thinks they almost certainly want to study languages (quite possibly 2+ languages at university).

Choice will affect whether they move schools for 6th form.

School A (current school) you have to do 3 A levels +either EPQ or core maths or work experience or sports leadership or 4th A level/As level.

School B you can do 3 A levels plus various enrichment modules and some of these can be learning a new language from scratch.

School A is obviously familiar which is a big plus.
DC would study 2 languages A levels and history A Level. History syllabus looks v interesting.
Then stuck on 4th option.
Doesn't want to do EPQ or leadership.
Not good at maths.
Might like teaching work experience or Psychology AS or English Lit AS. Seems a lot of work. Also psychology might be too mathematical.
School A gets better A level results.

School B harder to get to by public transport.
2 languages and history A level (syllabus a bit war-heavy, definitely not as interesting).
Could then do short modules in other languages and maybe some teaching work experience too.
Learning new languages would definitely be right up their street.
Wouldn't know anyone there.

Basically is it worth moving schools for the "enrichment" part of the curriculum?
Or should that be a lesser consideration than the history A level syllabus?
Also any thoughts on English Lit or Psychology AS?

Is it a disadvantage to just do 3 A levels nowadays?
I only did 3 - parents asking my advice didn't do any. I'm worried I will give outdated advice.

Could they not do their EPQ in some aspect of language? Research into bilingualism, or immigrant minority languages, or European minority languages (Basque, Welsh etc)? Apart from the extra thing issue, School a looks far better on paper. Studying other languages is a bit of a red herring. There are several RG unis that will allow study of three languages at degree level so one (or two) new languages can be picked up at uni.

To be honest I don't know much about what EPQ entails.
Do they have to come up with it all themselves?

I think they just felt having a big unstructured piece of coursework hanging over them would be really stressful, whereas studying some new languages would be fun.

Yh I agree. School A looks like a winner.

You can pick up new languages at uni these days (some even offer German ab initio!). EPQ in some aspect of language would be good.

Most DC now do three A levels, v unusual to do four unless one is Further Maths (and not always then).

What two languages are they doing? Yay that they have the chance! (,FL specialist here)

I wouldn't worry too much about EPQ, f it's too much I bet they can drop it. DD started it and dropped it as it was impacting her A levels. Ds2 didn't even start it. Mind you their school offers it but it's not a must do.

They can look now at what it involves and come up with ideas? Friend of DD's did it on the film they were going to study but didn't, as she has enjoyed it. It's a red herring IMHO as it only reduces your offer if you get a distinction.

Thank you for all the advice. I didn't realise you might even be able to drop the EPQ.

I thought school A seems a better idea too, but was a bit worried about the responsibility of recommending something that seems a lot more work.

Clary, languages are French and Spanish, but interested in Italian from scratch too, I think.

Well, check with the school re EPQ. One school ds2 looked at required extra work for the fourth slot - further maths, core maths, AS biology (!?), EPQ or something else. I bet not everyone follows it through tho.

Great stuff re French and Spanish (shame it's not German but hey)

DD1 did MFL at highly regarded university. 3 A levels is ALL you should do. Oxbridge entry included. Do not do more.

EPQ makes little difference for languages regarding how well you do on the course. The entry requirements might offer a lower tariff though but quite frankly MFL applicants walk into most places. There’s a shortage of them. Only Oxbridge is really competitive. DD got offers from everywhere including Oxford. 33% of applicants do. An EPQ could be useful for the interview at Oxbridge but dabbling in other languages isn’t useful. They are looking for academic rigour and ability in what you want to study. If you want an ab initio language, target the EPQ at that. It’s more challenging to do ab initio but obviously some totally relish it. DD didn’t.

DD studied 2 MFLs at A level. History is an excellent one to choose for a third A level. Politics, RE, English Lit or similar essay subjects are best to go with languages. Oxbridge want an essay submitted and you need essay writing skills for a good quality MFL degree. In fact some MFL undergrads really struggle to write essays and an essay A level really helps. It’s best to apply knowing how to research for and write essays.

Don’t think MFL degrees are all about acquiring a variety of languages - spoken and written. They are not. They are academic research based degrees with language acquisition to a high level.

Joint honours with two languages you have already studied is perhaps the best (easier) route. Don’t do one MFL if you can avoid it. Too narrow. Two MFLs allows two locations for the year abroad and that’s a big bonus. It also shows enough breadth to employers and it is more work. More than that and immersion in each country is truncated and a bit limited. You can spread yourself too thinly. Ask yourself: who really cares if you have added Portuguese to Spanish and French? DD did language modules in her abroad. That was a good way to add another one in without pressure.

Do as much as you can at school to enhance the learning of the two languages. Read magazines. Watch films. Go on holiday if you can and consider food, culture and politics and art. A good academic degree will offer fantastic options and students are expected to be competent linguists but don’t forget lots of MFL grads don’t use their degrees in their jobs - for their language content. DD converted to Law. MFL was a vehicle for that career. She loved it for 4 years! More than a law degree for 3 years. But she’s had one French client. She speaks French with a colleague who studied French and History. Her skills are many but the languages are now holidays only!

So would she do A level Italian from scratch in y12? Why? Or just the GCSE?

Presenting Percy, no, not A level or GCSE. Beginners Italian is one of the enrichment modules on offer at School B - the main basis of that school's appeal, I think.

Thank you for that comprehensive reply. I will pass it all on. Think the plan is maybe a teaching career afterwards.

Don't think Oxbridge is being considered at all, but maybe I should suggest it's worth a long shot.

Maybe they could consider an EPQ on the history or culture of one of the countries speaking the target language.

My ds is going to uni in September to do Joint Hons ML. He did History, German and Psychology A levels this year. Didn't do an EPQ as none of the unis he put down changed their offer based on an EPQ so he didn't see the point.

Just asked him - he says Psychology is really not that maths orientated. He says as long as the dc gets at least a 5 they should be able to do the maths requirement very easily - he says definitely go for 2 languages, History and Psychology.

I assume 4 is about trying the subjects. No grammar here let’s dc take 4 in y13 unless it’s Further maths. History is far more use for MFL than Psychology - in terms of skills needed for an MFL degree. It’s a complete waste of time for any MFL student to take 4 A levels. Spend any extra time on the extra things I listed.

Regarding teaching - French and Spanish are best. Italian isn’t favoured. DD did it and one of her friends is a teacher but had to do Spanish instead of Italian in PGCE year. So if she wants to teach, Italian isn’t what most schools look for. DD loved it though! Beginners Italian is neither here nor there. Choose the school with the best results in her languages. Good teaching beats everything else.

DD had 9xA* at GCSE so had the right profile for Oxbridge. If she’s likely to get 6 x 8/9 grades at GCSE it’s worth a punt if the language results are top drawer. They do like essay subjects to be high grades too. It’s a literature biased course. However plenty of universities will be significantly less choosy.

DD discovered she enjoyed medieval French - who knew? She didn’t until she tried. Keep an open mind regarding options and challenges.

Well, I don't actually know the GCSE projection, but I doubt it is 6x 8/9s!

I'll pass that on about psychology, thank you to your DS, mimble.

Strange they make them do extra things then when other schools don't. Maybe they have misunderstood the requirements. It is just a normal comp, not grammar or anything as far as I know.

That's interesting information that you can't do a PGCE with Italian - I'm sure they don't realise that.

I think the big fascination with Italy is Roman and medieval history (and probably the attraction of going there on holiday!)

Depending on the languages course, there may well be linguistics, literature and/or history as part of it, so I think A-level subjects like English language, English literature and history are helpful alongside languages.

I would go with school A for the better results, better history syllabus and easier commute.

The extra option is certainly not unusual.

One school local to us does just what you describe, choice of EPQ, core maths etc, and another insists on 4 choices and you drop one at end of Yr 12. Plenty of schools just do three A, levels tho, with optional EPQ.

The Italian point is that barely any schools teach it, so it'd be tough to get a job. French and increasingly Spanish are both sought after tho.

EPQ is kind of a bonus subject. You can get extra UCAS points and schools and unis like it as it evidences that student can research independently. I think it's a real bonus.
I studied Leaving Cert in Ireland but have heard that language A-levels are tough in the UK and the content is quite high level. So one to two languages A-levels and a humanities subject would be good uni I think. Languages are time-consuming to learn so do factor that in.
There are many downsides to language studies but the personal rewards of learning them and the ability to live abroad are worth it. I would just advise your DC to keep their choices relatively broad for now.

An EPQ finished in 1 year, or 1 year of English Lit (to AS level) would both be ok. Or work experience assisting language tuition at a school.

I posted a question on here about EPQs recently - I’ll try find it! I had some good replies and one that highlighted that it doesn’t have to be an essay - it can be an artefact. Check with school A but EPQ is usually timetabled into their week, helping them keep in track. My DD1 hadn’t done it and DD2 will choose core maths instead, so I can’t speak from experience.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4059924-can-you-explain-epq-is-it-good-to-have-it-or-leave-it

I think with the golden “hello” for MFL teachers they want teachers to teach the languages schools want. Italian is wonderful but few schools teach it. Private schools do but Spanish and French are the ones to go for if she wants to teach. Also DC change their minds about what they want to do when they meet others at university. And go to careers fairs.

DD didn’t find any downsides to MFLs. What could they be? You have to accept you are not a scientist but it’s easier to get into uni to do MFL than most humanities. Afterwards you can apply for what you want.

There's just been a big cut in the bursary for trainee teachers.

That’s true but it’s still decent enough. Also teachers don’t have to stay long in teaching and it was £25,000 before. I assume someone worked out it wasn’t value for money. Friends DC did 3 years. Maths.