GCSE Options, help.

[foxesandsquirrels]

DD is in Y8 and sadly needs to choose her options in Jan. I'm really cross about this as they lost half of Y7 and due to the arts carousel her school does and now COVID restrictions, she has never actually done a practical D&T lesson eg making stuff out of wood.

Anyway, she has SEN so she has a lot of flexibility in choices as she will only be taking the following core: Double Science, Maths, English Lit and Lang. When everyone else is in other lessons she will be having extra Maths and English.
She gets 3 open choices after this and wants to do the following:
Music, D&T and Photography or Art.
I have said to her that I think its a bad bad idea to do so many creatives. The school annoyingly are fine with these choices. Am I crazy in thinking this is a crazy list? The school have a ton of options.

@presentingpercy I think it's a big shame and in the majority of Europe History and Geography is mandatory until at least 16. Making GCSEs so difficult has definitely narrowed it down further though. For my GCSEs I did English, maths, science, history, geography, art, drama, textiles, dance and French. This is what most people did, with some taking up to 14.
I don't think Gove is terrible, contrary to popular opinion I think he has improved education a lot but he's not perfect and has made the whole 'specialising early' situation much worse. In the old set up, doing 8 GCSEs was for the lowest attainers. This is now a very respectable number and means kids are cutting subjects not because they don't enjoy them, but because it would be utterly impossible to handle the load.

I honestly think that it depends on the child. Both of my older two from a young age have been specialists. Both of them have done far better at science, humanities, maths and English than other subjects, although with a slightly different balance of those. Both have disliked languages and to an extent creative subjects. They say it is so nice to look at their timetables and not think 'oh no, it's X today.' Fortunately their choices have been easy. Even for sixth-form the choices are fairly clear and they would hate the IB.

I am not sure that it will be the same for my youngest. Although good at science it is not his passion. He loves humanities, can pick up languages like other people pick up a fork, loves music and drama. He will be much more constrained than the others due to the priority given at many schools to science. All the schools he might go to insist on three sciences for all but the least able students. Even then they still have the same timetable time for sciences. He can do science but he doesn't light up with it like he does the others. I can see him moaning about his timetable much later in his schooling than his sisters, not because it is narrow but because it does not have a balance he enjoys as much. I could see an IB suiting him much more, a little science to retain that skill but a broader range of topics to dip into.

Mine didn’t want IB because although they achieved well at gcse they didn’t love maths and science. To achieve highly at IB it appeared to us you needed to be pretty good at science and maths and mine didn’t want to continue beyond age 16.

Most schools I know are doing 2 year gcses with 9 subjects. That was the norm with pre Gove. DD2 did 10 because she did 2 arts subjects: Drama and Art. Everyone would have been happy with 9. DD1 did 11 but that was exceptional at the school but it was upped by triple science and two languages.

I think 8 or 9 is fine but this as 13 is narrow. Hopefully DC keep clubs and interests going and it’s not all work. No one ever gave up subjects years ago and we just worked at what was expected of us. And I’m O level vintage!

Continue maths and science beyond age 16 that is.

If she’s talented at science, can she not take three sciences instead of double science?
I think taking three creative subjects is OK.
One of mine did two creative subjects, music and art, but that was under the old system, and she did take about 13 subjects altogether. Art was a lot of work. My DD was a reasonably talented musician- grade 6 at 12 and at an auditioned-for junior conservatoire - but found music GCSE hard, the composition bit especially. She was at a bog standard comprehensive which pushed musicians into taking it in year 9, which was probably a mistake.

If not many taking music may miss out on the "fun bit" playing with others

@daisypond It's not possible for her to take triple science. They are streamed based on their SATS and she completely failed them eg scoring only a couple points in each paper. Only the top stream is allowed to do triple. She has improved drastically since starting secondary and getting better support but this is definitely not something the school would allow and to be honest, not really something I would urge her to do as combined science doesn't close any doors and triple is a lot of work.

I think the general consensus is that out of all the creatives, art is the most work so we won't be going with that one for sure.
I'm confused about music, I hear a lot from parents who's kids were very able players that their kids struggled, but than I know kids who chose music and started learning to play in Y9 and did great.
Maybe my mistake is thinking getting a 5/6 is a great.

@hopelesschildren how much fun can playing the piano with others be? I don't think she'd care to be honest. There is a class of at least 15-20 every year so I think that's plenty. Plus they put on musicals every year which the music kids get involved with and as there's not many of them, there is never much competition to get a substantial part.

OK, in our school there are currently only 3...
but my dc did enjoy playing in small groups of which one was a pianist.

@hopelesschildren Ah I see. I need to check with the school if this figure includes the music tech class as that one is much more popular. I wouldn't really want less than 10 but than again she responds best to small groups.

5/6 grade is never considered great on MN! The reason being is that it makes it very hard for A level grades to be good enough for university. Thats what most MN parents aspire to. However SEN is different and that's a different set of threads.

At DDs old school, able pianists did take music gcse. Definitely many musicians are good at the piano and its useful for composing. You certainly can include piano when playing with others.

I think Art can be seen as more work because often the Art group want their work to be excellent. They have not chosen it because they have no talent - or stamina! DD did not particularly enjoy GCSE but preferred A level as they can choose from much wider media. She did some textiles and even crochet. It does not have to be fine art and therefore can be more enjoyable. She got an A so what she did was perfectly acceptable.

I would not under estimate the time taken to do DT either. I remember great angst at DDs school where DDs felt they were under great pressure to finish pieces of work to a high standard. I remember the DT room being locked after school hours and there was quite a fall out from that - it was a boarding school. So do check the sylllabus and I would also check the grades achieved by all the DC's taking these subjects as well. Are they well taught? DD found Art was poorly taught at her first school so it was less enjoyable. Huge difference at her 6th form. Massive improvement. It really can matter for Art and Music.

Maybe my mistake is thinking getting a 5/6 is a great.

Personally, I think any result is great if the child has worked really hard for it and it genuinely reflects the best of their ability.

People will obviously have different talents, challenges and starting points, but we shouldn't ever take away from the achievements of a child who has worked their socks off to achieve a grade 5. IMO, that should be seen as a much bigger achievement than a grade 8 or 9 for a child who just coasted. That work ethic is hugely important.

If it's a great result for that child, then it's a great result.

@PresentingPercy yes that's true re the grades. We are definitely not doing A Levels but I find this attitude strange though as a 6 is a very respectable grade and lots of kids go on to do well in a levels and then university with them. I'm sure the average non SEN child gets 5s and 6s not 7-9s.
I do think kids are either over pressurised in families on here or parents are just quiet about their kids who get 5, 6s. As far as I know the only subject where it is proven that getting a 7 is bad for A level is maths. All our local sixth forms require a 6 and we're in London. The selective sixth forms require 7. So many kids bloom in sixth form and do well, equally there's a lot who enter sixth form completely burnt out and do really badly after getting 8s and 9s.

I agree with you 100% about Art being the perfectionist subject. The kids who refuse to glue things into their sketchbooks that they deem not good enough. I do think that it does take long though, that's unavoidable, that's the nature of art. DDs school does Art and Design not Fine Art so there is a bit more flexibility there and lots do textile type things.
The Music dept is very small but the teachers are much better than the Art in my opinion. Maybe I just don't like her Art teacher though and no, I don't think they're well taught in it, whereas the music is quite rigorous and she has done her grade 2 theory from class lessons.

Oh for sure, DT is scary too as I'm under the mercy of the school in terms of resources. I can buy a lino cutting kit, but I draw the line at CAD machine lol. 50% of it is exam though so there is less coursework which sounds a bit more balanced. The exam wouldn't be out of her reach either. They also offer textiles but she doesn't want to do that.

[quote foxesandsquirrels]@daisypond It's not possible for her to take triple science. They are streamed based on their SATS and she completely failed them eg scoring only a couple points in each paper. Only the top stream is allowed to do triple. She has improved drastically since starting secondary and getting better support but this is definitely not something the school would allow and to be honest, not really something I would urge her to do as combined science doesn't close any doors and triple is a lot of work.

I think the general consensus is that out of all the creatives, art is the most work so we won't be going with that one for sure.
I'm confused about music, I hear a lot from parents who's kids were very able players that their kids struggled, but than I know kids who chose music and started learning to play in Y9 and did great.
Maybe my mistake is thinking getting a 5/6 is a great.[/quote]
Performing counts for approx 33% of the GCSE. Performing to Grade 8 standard will get no more marks than performing to Grade 4/5 standard and may actually get you less if you play a Grade 8 piece with mistakes rather than a Grade 4 piece perfectly. There is some difference in how it’s worked out between Edexel & AQA but there are many kids who think they can rely on their performance skills as well.

If you’ve also learnt music theory & aural then that will help you on the listening paper. Listening is another 33% and is split between unseen listening & study of set works. Knowledge of things like cadences will help here but a large part of it is music history, knowing what elements you find in baroque or jazz etc and being able to identify them along with rhythms etc. Set works is to be treated the same way as a novel or a play, you study, analyse and answer questions about them.

Composition is another 33%. Lots find this difficult. Kids who have had piano lessons since age 7 haven’t been taught to compose. They often don’t know much about how to write for other instruments. Sometimes those with a less formal background can do better here if they have been used to improvising etc

So I think some go into gcse music thinking because they are Grade whatever it’s going to be easy.

I think there is quite a lot of evidence that turning a grade 6 gcse into a B at A level is a great leap. That’s why the academic schools want 7s in A level subjects. Almost certainly would for MFL. Of course there are university courses for CCC grades at A level but you won’t find them discussed much on here. You might also find employment prospects from these courses are not great either so I’m definitely thinking a practical training would suit a lot more DC. Although I think I’m in a minority!

@PresentingPercy oh you're not in the minority on here. I completely agree with you. There is far too much talk of A Levels and University being the route to success. The UK has a massive lack of professionals with practical training and it'll only get worse with Brexit.

I completely agree! I’m all for DC aiming high but more DC should be realistic. I do hope your DD is happy with her choices. I’m fairly unusual in that DD2 did Art and Photography A level. I do know it’s hard work! She also did Leiths cookery Basic course too and Business Studies. Now designs underwear! Takes all sorts!

My dd is very academic and her GCSE’s were mostly 8s with a couple of 9s and a 7.

But she then chose to go to dance college that only offered 2 A levels (she got A* A which she did alongside a vocational dance diploma. She won’t go to uni at all because it’s not what she wants.

@PresentingPercy My DD is doing the teen Leith's course! She loves it.
I'm sure there will be a lot of changes in her choices between now and the choice. There is an appeal from parents to change it to a 2 year course as there are some kids who have been self isolating multiple times and have missed so much of the practical curriculum it's impossible for them to make a choice.

Despite the fact the school was awful for ds, the school he went to in year 7/8 had a good system.

In year 8 they chose partial options. They had to continue with history, geography and a language in year 9 but could then choose up to 3 creative/technology options from music, art, drama, textiles, DT, food tech or they could start a 2nd language. It allowed the school to start the gcse syllabus in year 9 but still keep a broad range of subjects and give them time to decide and it allowed the kids to drop creative subjects they really didn’t get on with. At the end of year 9 they chose their options proper so they had to choose either history or geography or both, double or triple science then they had 3 options left if they chose double science or 2 if they chose triple.

@Comefromaway This is exactly what parents are asking to happen at DDs school. It sounds wonderful and makes sense!

I think that’s a decent compromise. We all want DC to do well but not necessarily reduce subjects too soon.