GCSE Options, help.

[foxesandsquirrels]

DD is in Y8 and sadly needs to choose her options in Jan. I'm really cross about this as they lost half of Y7 and due to the arts carousel her school does and now COVID restrictions, she has never actually done a practical D&T lesson eg making stuff out of wood.

Anyway, she has SEN so she has a lot of flexibility in choices as she will only be taking the following core: Double Science, Maths, English Lit and Lang. When everyone else is in other lessons she will be having extra Maths and English.
She gets 3 open choices after this and wants to do the following:
Music, D&T and Photography or Art.
I have said to her that I think its a bad bad idea to do so many creatives. The school annoyingly are fine with these choices. Am I crazy in thinking this is a crazy list? The school have a ton of options.

@Comefromaway her aural skills are great. She has an expressive language disorder which makes writing really difficult but she seems to have made up for it in the music/art area.

Ah that sounds as if her music would be fine then. It wasn't clear how long she has been studying to be at Grade 2.vComposition was the thing that dd found hard - the exam was ok.

I suggested humanity but if her SEN makes that difficult, then her choices seem fine tbh. If she prefers creatives and will do well then go for it. Things like childcare and engineering are no good if they don't interest you. Better to do something challenging that you love.

@clary sorry, she started exactly a year ago but lessons were online over lockdown. She has previously played the violin and recorder to about grade 3 but hasn't touched them for 2 years.

I agree, but I think she's underestimating just how challenging it'll be. One creative subject leaves many lunchtimes and afternoons in the arts department, let alone 3, especially if it's to the standard she wants.
She loves gardening and cooking so I was suggesting she does one of those instead of the 3rd Art.

My daughter had a similar decision a couple of years ago as she wanted to take Music, Drama and Art. In the end, timetabling meant she had to drop the idea of Music (her least liked of the 3) which has turned out to be a good thing as she's subsequently stopped playing - she's just decided she's not interested any more. DS did take Music and gave up as soon as GCSE was over!

Art is taking up as much time as expected, and one thing to highlight is that DD chose Art as she loved it as a hobby. This now means she does school Art AND hobby Art as the Art she's doing for school isn't necessarily on topics she'd choose herself. Hopefully this won't be a consideration for you, but due to Covid we've also had to build up a supply of art supplies at home so DD can work remotely, and also because access to the school art rooms is now limited. That has put some pressure on space.

This was my thread from the time which had some interesting thoughts, although my motivations were different to yours
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3438726-GCSE-Options-academic-child-picking-multiple-creative-options

Interesting to read your update redsky (I was AH on the other thread)

@RedskyAtnight thanks so much for your post, I have actually read your post before and was wondering what you decided to do.

Yes, this is my fear with the Art. She doesn't enjoy doing all the artist research homework she gets at the moment and that's pretty much all GCSE Art is. I think her art teacher would be very shocked if she doesn't, but I really don't think she should. Even the teacher at her Saturday art school said the GCSE syllabus takes the joy from art and
a lot of his students are not happy with it and have dropped art completely.
We have so many art supplies so this shouldn't be a problem but this is exactly my worry with DT. I don't exactly have a wood shop or a CAD machine.

Interesting about your DS. I think the creative subjects in general at GCSE have a special way of making students hate a subject they used to love.
I took Drama, Art, Textiles and Dance in a bog standard state on the old A-C spec and loved them all. It was no where near as much work as it is now, especially in the writing bits, but Art was by far the most time consuming.

Ooh, people read my thread

This was the follow-up thread I posted at the time, with a blow by blow account of the dilemmas and reasons we ended up where we did.
(for those who are interested; feel free to ignore me if not!)
(and sorry for derail, OP)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3527129-Picking-Creative-subjects-at-GCSE-revisited

@RedskyAtnight I didn't see that one, thanks, very helpful!

I did music GCSE and wouldn't recommend it unless she has a gift for composing - it made up 40% of the course when I did it! However, I see that you say she does, so that's one problem solved.

So she's never done DT? Does the school offer anything different that she could do? For example, ds' school offered a BTEC in travel and tourism.

DD 2 did Drama and Art at gcse, but a while ago. She did A level Art and A level Photography. I think the reason art has to have written analysis is that it’s required at A level. It’s very hard to do the A levels if you have no idea about writing. That, sadly, will be the same in animal management. You have to keep records!

It’s easy for a 12 year old to try and avoid what they don’t like but schools really shouldn’t allow 3 arts subjects. It is too great a workload and it’s certainly not a broad education. The DT here is a big concern. This is also a school doing 3 year GCSEs. I thought schools were being asked to stop this. She really needs y9 to mature a bit and make informed choices. This seems a bit knee jerk!

Grade 5s obviously keep doors open if you get the grade. Some post on MN that some doors are firmly closed with grade 4 maths for example. I would have thought childcare would be a good shout. What about RE? She has to write for English and avoiding writing just isn’t possible.

@puffinkoala she would prefer composing to playing set pieces but again she is very much a beginner and the other option is music tech which is a good alternative we might go for instead.
Why is the DT a big concern?

@PresentingPercy she is at an academy that doesn't do RE so not an option. I'm definitely not saying we can avoid writing. She has severe issues with processing language and dyslexia so we will be very lucky if she gets a 4 in English. It would be cruel of me to force her to choose another essay subject, I know how much she is struggling with it and she gets a lot of support. She has funding for a 1:1 TA and the school give her amazing support. There is an option to do catering, engineering or land studies as a 3rd option which is what I'm leaning to.
Yes there is writing in animal management, but it's not 8 mark questions of literary or historical analysis. For some reason she finds science very easy and is in top sets for it. No one can understand why.
They're allowed to carry on with a 3 year GCSE. In fact, some schools are changing to it due to the uncertainty of COVID. In fact her schools latest Ofsted commented on the outstanding broad curriculum and that was last year, so I don't think they have a problem with it when done right. I agree she needs time to mature and for kids like her it's rubbish.

Out of interest why is DT the worry? She loves making stuff and has made shoe storage from wood, can confidently use a saw and drill. It's all from home DIY projects but I don't think it would be that difficult to translate that into the school setting. She is very good at isometric drawings and is doing well in DT theory wise.

My first thought on reading the choices was, that's potentially a heavy coursework load. (Having discussed Music + Art in detail some years back when my eldest was choosing; she didn't do art and for her that was probably the right choice)

On reading your further comments, your daughter sounds like the kind of child who should be choosing a combo like that to reduce exam pressure and reflect her interests. Given her support needs, I would ask to discuss with her school whether, and when, the option could exist to drop one of the three and pick up gardening or cooking or whatever in its place. That would hopefully be possible with 3 year GCSE options?

@pythonesque really good point, I will ask about that actually. I have a feeling she will end up dropping art or DT for land studies but wild prefer for her to just start with it as it's so relaxing and she finds it very easy.

Music teacher here. Your DD is easily capable of doing well at GCSE given her current level. Ignore people who say they "have" to be grade 5 when they are 6 to access top grades. We use the Eduqas syllabus at both GCSE and A level for many reasons. One is that to access the marks for "more difficult" pieces in the performing, you need to play pieces of grade 4 standard. Grade 3 is standard. Kids who are grade 2 in year 8 will be fine.

Some schools, especially fee-paying ones can stipulate what they like for kids to opt for their subject. My state school does not. Over the last 2 days I have taught 2 GCSE groups of year 9 students. They were doing practical work in small groups. The most able at this activity were not the grade 7 pianists. They were the kids who watched and really listened to the others in their groups. Exam grades are great for some things. They most definitely DO NOT equate to a grade 9 at GCSE.

OP, your DD should take subjects that she enjoys and that make her happy. If she would be learning an instrument anyway, 30% of her Music is covered by that as long as the instrumental/vocal teacher knows what the GCSE spec is assessing. Composing is meant to be done mostly in school/under supervision as the teacher has to sign off that they have seen its creation and it is the candidate's own work. Art does seem to take up an awful lot of time with my students. I don't know whether it is because they are particularly conscientious but they say that the music workload is a fraction of that of art. Results are broadly comparable.

@PresentingPercy the only people I've ever seen criticising 3 year GCSEs are on MN! People on here go on about OFSTED hating it and downgrading schools. We were inspected in March just before lockdown and found to be outstanding again, despite our 3 year GCSE programme.

When my own DDs were choosing, they thought that 2 years of compulsory Art & DT lessons were more than enough. I would much rather teach year 9s who have opted for my subject than being forced to do it for another year when their time could be more profitably spent elsewhere. Covering the course over 3 years means that we can really enjoy the learning journey much more than the realistic 18 months that the "2 year" course gives.

DD did 3 creative subjects at GCSE: music, textiles and drama, she also has SEN and her school do GCSEs over 3 years. They were her choices and we supported her. She coped well with the coursework (NEA) as she always found this easier than exams. As she was the corona cohort she didn’t take those exams but the work completed so far meant she did well in those subjects. She’s now taking 3 creative subjects for A levels.

That is directly the opposite of what was reported about 3 year GCSEs. No Outstanding could be given was widely reported. So I was not mistaken. Maybe they have changed their mind? Numerous articles about it.

I also meant to say that the op said DD had not yet had a practical DT lesson so I assumed that choosing it as a GCSE would be a leap into the unknown. Obviously it’s not. That was my reason for thinking it was the one to drop. If she’s really going to struggle work back from what she needs for animal management. None of this discussion will probably matter! But it was you who thought 3 practical subjects was too much big she’s got 3 years. Other dc have 2.

I’m also so glad my DDs were able to enjoy a broader education and they didn’t have to do fewer subjects for 3 years. But they were not 4/5 DCs. They would have missed out so much.

@Malbecfan I'm personally really against 3 year GCSE to be honest. But I'm also against GCSEs and specialising at 16 so there that. I didn't fall in love with geography until second half of year 9 and I ended up taking it to a level after hating it all through y7 and 8.

I don't want to concentrate too much on the animal management, they just need maths, English and science for that as they start them all on level 2, irrespective of GCSEs. In march she was dead set on gardening so I don't really want to choose anything just for the sake of post 16. My main aim is to make sure she gets maths, science and English and the other subjects are not over burdensome so as to completely steal her time away from the core.

@PaddingtonPaddington You're exactly the type of parent I was hoping to hear from. That's amazing, I'm so happy for your daughter.
I will speak to the school but the likely options will be DT, Music and Land. I think art will be a miserable long slog.

Let her take what she wants. She'll have the core stuff and she could do a more practical vocational course at a college if that's what she wants to do rather than A levels. Or if she does go creative route she has that too.

One of mine had to select some options in yr 8 and then narrow again in yr9. She was so pleased to drop the creative subjects, hated them, so for every child who has their options narrowed there is probably another celebrating.

The grade 5 music thing is for the highest marks. Dd has been advised to use one of her grade 5 pieces as there is no benefit of doing a harder piece. Your dd might be grade 4/5 by year 11 anyway.

Would land management not fit in better with the animal management? All dd's friends doing art moan about the workload and don't seem to enjoy it.

I felt with both mine that it was a little sad when they had their last history lesson, last German lesson, last art lesson etc. but they were both celebrating. I think that as a parent it symbolises doors closing, your child is growing up and is never going to need to do that subject again (although with life long learning opportunities I don't think any of them are closed forever). Neither of mine regretted the ones they dropped at all. Even the decisions they agonised over. Obviously might not be the same for everyone and their strengths are in the sciences so they still do those.

At 12/13 the doors are closing very early. It’s not a rounded education. I get some don’t want to work at subjects they are not much good at or aren’t interested in but I think my DDs were still doing 15 subjects if you include PE in y9. I would say none of it wasted and it was expected so no moaning.