A level choices: Further Maths vs Chemistry / Music vs Language

[CharlesAnton]

DS likes to do maths for sure, then probably music, then...chemistry or further maths. So maths/chemistry/music or maths/further maths/music, which combination would you say better or recommended? I know it all depends on what he would like to do after a levels but he isn't sure yet so currently he's just looking at the subjects he is good at and would enjoy.

He's also strong at language so he could do it instead of music. However, currently he thinks he would enjoy music more.

Any advice please?

MFL A level is always good (I would say that, former MFL teacher!) but so few people do it now that it has to look good. I know few people do music too, but that is more orientated towards specific targets.

Funnily enough, dd was doing music but didn't enjoy it (picked out all her worst bits from GCSE) so swapped to French.

re maths/FM, a couple of threads ATM. Does he think of a maths degree at all? If so FM is probably a good idea. Otherwise chemistry is a great A level that, with maths (=second science) can lead to things like engineering or other science degrees.

What does he want to do ultimately? Any idea at all? My ds2 was going to do maths, FM, PE, then added biology, then dropped FM (decided it was too hard) and now wants to do biology at uni. Maths is good for him tho as it is a second science.

I would advise that he thinks about what he would like to do in the future, if he has degree in mind then look at some prospectus and look at the admission criteria. They are vastly different subjects so will define what degree he can do if that's his ultimate aim.

P.s.I chose French and Art and it was a waste of time as the two did not go well together when choosing a degree.

Also I found French at A Level hugely different to GSCE, a lot harder, and didnt enjoy it.

Thank you for the comments. So it always goes back to what he wants in future... I know... But he isn't sure yet. How many children know what they want pre A-levels? There seem to be so many options yet so many restrictions...

Is the combination of maths and chemistry good for a-level? I was told it's not as good as maths and physics if we want to keep his future options wider. I was also advised that if he isn't sure what he wants to do yet and is very strong at maths and enjoys the subject, do maths and further maths and possibly do a maths degree as it opens up so many opportunities when it comes to choose a job. Yet I've just read a thread in which people are saying maths and further maths wouldn't be good unless the child would like to do a maths degree (and unless FM is the 4th a-level) as the combination really narrows down future options. Hmm.

Teens aren’t usually at all sure what they’d like to do in the future but they often know what they don’t want to do. Definitely order a few university prospectuses and get him to flick through highlighting anything that takes his fancy. An awful lot (I think the stat is around 75%) of jobs will accept a graduate regardless of subject. Equally a lot of degrees accept any 3 A levels. It’s most important to choose ones he will enjoy and get the best grades at. If there’s any degree course where it says a certain A level is essential then that starts to dictate his choices. Also make a note of any that count Maths & FM as one A level - there are certainly some.

Maths, FM, Chemistry and a language would be a great pick. Music really only is needed if he realistically would do a music degree, although it seems that even then grade 7 theory and grade 8 performance would work instead

Thank you for the great advice. He will do only 3, not 4, so has to pick either chemistry or FM if he likes to do language or music. So it'll be either maths, FM and music or language, or maths, chemistry and music or language.

I always thought if FM would be picked it should be the 4th a-level as I thought maths and FM would be counted as one. But recently I heard that they are considered as two separate a-level as more people do only 3 rather than 4 now (due to the content getting tougher??).

Is a good grade in music well received only for a music degree? I heard music a-level is really hard and there are lots of essay based work so I assumed achieving a good grade in music would be welcomed by many other non music related degrees?

Music is vital for a music degree but is perfectly ok for a third A level. MFL is required for a MFL degree and keeps far more doors open for university courses and doing a year abroad. Music doesn’t do that. So with Chemistry and Maths he could look at Chemical Engineering with a year abroad. FM is considered by most universities to be a separate A level these days. If he’s very keen on maths and a whiz at it, he should do it, and with Chemistry and Maths he would be fine, but obviously qualified for science degrees. Not music or MFL ones. MFL would be better than FM if he wanted Law. So really MFL, Maths and Chemistry keep a lot more doors open.

He can also pursue music separately and universities have music opportunities for students. Music degrees can limit job choices but one of DDs friends is a barrister and did a music degree at Oxford. So you never know!

@CharlesAnton

Is the combination of maths and chemistry good for a-level? I was told it's not as good as maths and physics if we want to keep his future options wider. I was also advised that if he isn't sure what he wants to do yet and is very strong at maths and enjoys the subject, do maths and further maths and possibly do a maths degree as it opens up so many opportunities when it comes to choose a job. Yet I've just read a thread in which people are saying maths and further maths wouldn't be good unless the child would like to do a maths degree (and unless FM is the 4th a-level) as the combination really narrows down future options. Hmm.

It's a minefield isn't it? DS has decided on Maths and Physics, he is deciding on his third subject (either Biology, Geography or History). He is mostly interested in something to do with Space... but wants to keep his options open. Everyone is saying take Further Maths, but he doesn't want to narrow his University options to either Maths or Physics just yet. Not sure whether he will be able to do 4 (he is exceptionally lazy).

If he's going to end up doing sciences/engineering, then music would be very much "the third A-level". For maths/engineering further maths is very useful (rarely compulsory because some schools don't offer it, but on some uni courses most students will have it).
For sciences, chemistry often seems to be more useful than physics - for the Cambridge Natural Sciences course, there's a choice of options in the first year, and even physics doesn't require physics A-level!

If he's not going towards a music career, then he might consider keeping music as his hobby rather than an A-level. If he's done any grades 6-8 they give him UCAS points, so it's still "on his CV". With only three subjects, he can keep more options open without the music A-level.

He won’t be just looking at maths and physics degrees surely? He could look at all sorts of engineering degrees. Add Geography and he’s well placed for civil engineering with an environment slant. Or environmental science. So many opportunities out there! Just start looking at greater breadth. History adds a bit less in some ways but would be great for law as it’s an essay subject. Biology means there are biological and medical related degrees as well.

In my experience maths and further maths are considered one subject if you are applying for medicine. They only accept both if FM is taken as a fourth subject.

Medical schools usually ask for chemistry and biology, plus one other subject.

There are many many engineering courses where dc don’t have FM. It’s only the top few competitive courses where will most have fm. Is he A* all the way type dc? Everyone else will be doing engineering post A level maths. It really is no barrier to engineering if you don’t have FM.

Does he want to be a medic? Usually dc know they want this career and plan accordingly.

If he's not sure what he wants to do at uni then I wouldn't recommend M, FM and music. It's too narrow. Unless he loves maths and really wants to do a maths degree. Which leave Maths, chem and music. Which is a decent combination.

Maths and chem go great together. As a left field suggestion maths, music and physics opens up sound engineering degrees....

We are having the same discussion with our DS. His passion his music and wants to do a music degree but we are worried that because of covid there will be fewer job prospects for him for the next few years

We are trying to keep his options open as much as possible and he wants to do Music, Art, Chemistry and Physics as these are the subjects he enjoys the most but we have no idea whether they are a good combination! If he changes his mind and wants to do his degree in something science based he hopefully has the option to do this.

Maths plus chemistry opens up many science degrees as they count as two sciences. Maths plus further maths is much narrower which is fine if he is considering a maths degree.

Ah OP it is so tricky isn't it. The thing is, he really has to start to specialise at A level.

If you want to do a science degree at a well-regarded (hate that phrase!) uni, you ideally should be doing two sciences. With just one science, your offer will most likely be higher.

If you want to do English and drama at uni, you need those two at A level.

If you plan to study French and Spanish, you probably need both of those at A level (tho unis are now offering a second language ab initio).

So if your ds loves maths enough to want to do FM then the suggestion is that he will want to do a maths degree, or at least something engineering related.

FM most definitely is a separate A level, it's well-regarded and was a facilitating subject when we were allowed to talk about those.

But if he did maths, FM and French he could perfectly well do a French degree.

I almost did maths A level alongside my two MFLs so I do sympathise.

I meant to say that there's nothing wrong with music, and if he is wanting to do music after sixth form he should take A level. But does he?

If he really doesn't then Chemistry or MFL would be a better option.

Thanks for all the replies.

I doubt he wants to apply for medicine. I never heard him saying he would like to be a medic. So that is one crossed out. I don't think he would do geography as it's not his GCSE subject. He wouldn't do history neither. So, while we don't know what he wants to do in the future yet, we know a bit of what he wouldn't do or less likely to do.

He casually mentioned law or economics, though I think it's simply because he likes debating and numbers and nothing else. Engineering is another thing he mentioned but I don't think he knows what's kind of engineering so we don't know whether he should do physics or chemistry. He likes both (basically all three sciences) but chemistry is a natural choice for him as it's one of his all time favourite subjects. I am so glad to hear maths and chemistry go well together and will lead to many engineering options.

He naturally considered music as he knew he would enjoy it and is good at it. But it looks like he should keep it as a hobby to keep more options open. We kind of knew this though. However, as he doesn't know what he wants to do for his degree/career yet, he was trying to choose his a-level subjects purely based on his passion and interest at this stage. But I know he should be careful and think ahead if he doesn't want to face to disappointment later on (after all the hard work).

Could he do maths, chemistry and language (...or music...) then apply for a math degree? Or FM is required or strongly preferable if you like to apply for a math degree? If so he HAS TO know which degree he wants to do before choosing his a-levels. I can imagine him happily studying maths or science at uni but not sure which one he'll end up wanting to do yet.

I don't think he will do a language degree. The reason why he considered a language as one of his a-level subjects is because he likes it and is good at it, like music. But there is a slightest chance that he may want to do a music degree, though a maths or science related degree is more likely I believe (or I hope). So perhaps he should drop a language as he has no plan to do it at uni. Then his choices will be maths, chemistry and music or maths, FM and chemistry?

If he wants to do a maths degree he needs FM.

But if he did maths, FM and chemistry, then that would open maths and lots of other things - such as accounting, engineering, computer science, biochemistry, as well as any kind of chemistry course.

If he did maths, FM and music, a lot of those things would still be open to him (not the chemistry stuff but still) plus music I guess. What grade is he at now? A music degree is v specific and a tough way to earn your living.

Actually a lot of engineering requires physics. There are courses wher e chemistry is ok tho.

Don't forget there are lots of courses with no specific A levels required. Law, for example. In no way does he gave to know before A levels. Just if he does know (eg maths degree, French degree) then he should choose accordingly. He should do what he most enjoys. FM is for maths geeks. If he's a maths geek he'll most likely want a mathsy uni course?

If he loves Music then he should do it. A Levels are tough (in all subjects) and I firmly believe that kids should do subjects that they enjoy. It sounds like he's not in a position to choose A Levels based on his future uni/career aspirations so I would recommend that he goes with what he's keen on and then figures out the next bit later. Yes, some doors will be closed as a result of whatever he chooses but that's ok, there are other doors!

Music A Level is well respected and Music graduates go on to a huge variety of different careers (not all of which have been completely destroyed by covid) so I definitely don't think it's a subject to avoid if it's something he's keen on.