DD Year 8, struggling at grammar

[BaconAndAvocado]

Had a heart to heart with DD earlier this evening. She feels that she shouldn't be at grammar school as she finds it really hard. She sad that her recent test scores have been very low.

We haven't had any feedback from the school recently (for obvious reasons) so I don't know how she presents in class etc.

Before lockdown she had found it hard settling into Year 7 and had friendship issues. All seems loads better on the friendship front but now this!

I'm not sure whether I should contact the school or accept that she may always find it hard.

The grammar system is just rubbish. Counties like Kent and Bucks which still have it end up with 25% of children going to grammar and the remaining 75% going to less well-regarded secondary schools. In my London borough, the vast majority of the secondary schools give a great education to the high-achieving children alongside the children who struggle more. Good schools can accommodate and celebrate all children's achievements. My DD got into Tiffin Girls but we chose our local comprehensive because we felt it would give her a better, more well-rounded (more focus on sports and drama) and co-ed education, and two years in we believe that to be the case. And I'm 100% confident she'll still go to Russell Group/Oxbridge if that's what she chooses.

The books are really expensive too - it's a crap system

Sj

I agree with you re putting grammar suitability back in the hands of schools. It's the only way many poor but bright pupils could get well educated at their ability level.
Parents could tutor on top but a bright child just needs exam technique, familiarity with nvr... A few other pointers and that's it.

Personally I think education needs to change massively.. Putting 11+ students into a secondary modern is pointless. They will do well and boost the schools grades
But what about those struggling or average students?

I don't think grammars should be blamed for secondary moderns not doing well.

@Mokusspokus - perhaps the average and struggling students would benefit? Children often work to the level of the ability around them. Also, the Secondary Moderns struggle to attract the same calibre of experienced teachers, change the system and that would change too. As for putting 11+ students into a Secondary Modern being pointless, DDs Secondary Modern school attracts students who could have gone to Grammars but sometimes choose her school instead because of the Creative, Music and Performing Arrs offerings being better. We didn’t go the 11+ route as DH is vehemently politically opposed to it but from her SATS scores & her teachers recommendations, she is grammar material. She’s in the top streams, appears to be challenged and engaged and we don’t consider it ‘pointless’.

Completely agree that it’s an unfair system but I’m sure many Middle Class parents (and certainly the ones I know) wouldn’t disagree with that for a second, including the OP. I don’t blame parents for coaching or tutoring in the least, we have to do the best in the existing circumstance for our DC - certainly I’m as guilty as gaming the system as anyone else as DD had years of private music tuition and got a music place. The question really is if we can all see it’s a completely sucky and unfair system why aren’t we all trying to do something about it?

• pointless as in, how does having 11+ ability cohort in a school actually help those in the sets below them.

How does someone in bottom math set benefit from the your dd being in totally different class away from her.
There are huge arguments about better teachers too and people seem think it's not necessarily down to better teaching, just less crowd control.

Grammar can't be blamed for poorly performing secondary moderns.
The whole thing needs over hauling.

Overall I agree with you at @Mokusspokus & fair points but I do think that Secondary Moderns struggle to attract really experienced teachers and there is more usage of teachers in training.

Clymene "I think the system is mad though. How can it be that half the secondary schools in a county require passing a test which no primary schools are allowed to teach? Bonkers."

That is truly bonkers. I find it so odd too that most of the counties in the country have rejected and moved on from the 2 tier system decades ago, yet in isolated pockets it randomly still seems to be considered the best we can do for the local children.

I am so thankful we live in a good comp area. CATs seem to be a bit of a thing in assessing incoming baseline ability and I'm sure that is flawed too, but they have none of the pressure and much less of the consequences of 11+.

DD is in a grammar in a superselective area, in a borough (only one boys grammar amd one girls grammar) where most non-selective schools are also good or better. For us it has been great she has had the choice.

At primary it was cloying to have her pulled back so many times and told to slow down. She wanted to read more, she wanted to learn more. The problem we saw with a primary system was that it fitted the majority which was good in principle, or those who needed extra help to get on. However you were penalised as an outlier at the upper end. DD was told to re-read the same book despite getting top marks on comprehension as they wanted to move all at the same pace. We created a debt for a few years and went private.

It didn’t encourage you to stick with such a state system at secondary level if you had a bright child. I know many who felt the same. I was once accused of giving my child an unfair advantage in life having read to her every night I could be home from work in time in her first seven years of life. That wasn’t as often as I liked but it was often enough. So yes there are some of us in grammar areas who sought out establishments where education was valued by the majority. DD is also at a school that is far more diverse culturally and racially than the other secondary schools in our locale, with the common element being a love of education.

My father was put in for the 11+ during the war. The school picked out bright students and gave them tuition for the test. He passed but his parents could not afford the extra two years of education (let alone the blazer!) so he never went to grammar and left school at 14.

Why we can’t have support for tests in primary schools in grammar areas or neighbouring grammar areas for the test does seem odd to me, but I understand it as the government not ‘really’ supporting the concept of grammars so it is all rather silly and messed up.

The onus seems to be on grammars to do out reach to primaries. Many have implemented varies strageties to get more unsupported dc in.

Sen dc are barley recognised in primary schools, many whose needs are are not severe enough, they fall by the way side. I'd stop all angst and energy Moaning Moaning about grammar and leave grammars to do what they do.

Instead focus should be on getting teaches trained in sen, support, different teaching stragety... And support in secondary school.

But how much do grammars actually go to get unsupported DC in? I’ve not seen any evidence of it, I can’t say it doesn’t happen but how widespread is it? Certainly the number of places offered to PP here in Kent aren’t significant. As for the ‘moaning’, eh the system is significantly flawed and unfair, as someone up thread has said, why the hell are we supporting a system that gives a superior education to middle class children at the tax payers expense? All of us who feel some discomfort at this aren’t ‘moaning snowflakes’ but people who feel uncomfortable with what is completely unequal provision. And yes of course SEN provision and support should be improved in schools, hardly the same issue.