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Secondary education

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Original poster

Can I get your opinion on collective punishment

51 replies

ChangeyNameyforthis · 14/10/2020 12:32

DS, year 8 came home from school upset as his whole class have been given 5 detentions, over 5 days. An incident happened at school with a couple of students and because no one was forthcoming with the info, the whole class is being punished. DS had nothing to do with it, nor did any of the others aside from a couple. The girls have the detention too.

I am not happy about this. If that was your DC would you say something?

OP posts:
Original poster
ChangeyNameyforthis · 14/10/2020 12:33

Plus, is this a usual way to punish secondary school DC?

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FinallyHere · 14/10/2020 12:34

On the whole, I would let teachers get on with managing class discipline the way they see fit and, if a was bugging, back them up. Working out what behaviours would not deserve support I'd of course the tricky part.

The whole class will benefit from good discipline.

Spaghettio · 14/10/2020 12:40

Not a teacher, but I think they're a lazy way of punishing the offenders. All you get is all the innocent children annoyed and the guilty ones don't usually care. The teacher needs to find a different way to punish the offenders.

PineappleUpsideDownCake · 14/10/2020 12:41

Absolutely complain.

Old fashioned way to deal with bad behaviour. Noway would my child be sittibg detentions for something they didnt do.

NotQuiteHere · 14/10/2020 12:48

Teachers are not allowed to choose whatever punishments they would like to apply. Look at Behaviour Policy of your school and complain, I am sure this barbaric type of punishment is against the policy.

ellenpartridge · 14/10/2020 12:50

Would not be happy with this.

Original poster
ChangeyNameyforthis · 14/10/2020 12:54

I am the first person to pull my DC up on their behaviour and wouldn't tolerate them causing issues at school and I think as a result they are pretty well disciplined and behaved. I've never had an issue with any of them. My DC didn't get involved and walked away before a teacher came. In turn, I don't appreciate others bad behaviour and their punishments being watered down by sharing them with the rest of the class. I think it is not on.

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TeenPlusTwenties · 14/10/2020 12:59

To some extent I think it depends on the 'incident'.

'all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing' (or something like that).

So if it was wilful damage of school property, or bullying and the rest of the class saw it and did nothing then I would be more likely to agree with the approach.

margotsdevil · 14/10/2020 13:12

@NotQuiteHere

Teachers are not allowed to choose whatever punishments they would like to apply. Look at Behaviour Policy of your school and complain, I am sure this barbaric type of punishment is against the policy.
I feel "barbaric" is perhaps a slight exaggeration Hmm although I'd accept unfair as a description.

I don't generally agree with whole class detentions (as a secondary teacher) although I have at times removed a whole class privilege (listening to music whilst working for example). It very much depends on the incident and the school policy as to whether it's a proportionate response. Generally indicates an inexperienced or weak teacher to me.

NotQuiteHere · 14/10/2020 13:20

TeenPlusTwenties:
"So if it was wilful damage of school property, or bullying and the rest of the class saw it and did nothing then I would be more likely to agree with the approach"
Doing nothing might be morally wrong, but it would not deserve a formal punishment.

Original poster
ChangeyNameyforthis · 14/10/2020 13:21

I have checked the school behaviour policy and they have a list of things that you get a detention for, non of which my DC has done to warrant one detention, let alone a weeks worth.

I see your point Teen, but it is not for students to police others behaviour nor make themselves unpopular for the rest of their school life.

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Original poster
ChangeyNameyforthis · 14/10/2020 13:23

Doing nothing might be morally wrong, but it would not deserve a formal punishment.

You can't expect young DC to tell teachers what happened. In fact, my DC walked away as soon as it started and doesn't know what happened so couldn't tell even if he knew.

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Slightlybrwnbanana · 14/10/2020 13:26

Can't believe someone has called this "barbaric"! I suspect the teacher hopes this will encourage someone to own up, or to pass on the required info.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 14/10/2020 13:27

You have said

because no one was forthcoming with the info, the whole class is being punished and then

My DC didn't get involved and walked away before a teacher came

So clearly they know something because they walked away from it. If someone witnesses someone else being bullied and doesn't report it to a teacher then they are complicit. As there were lots of witnesses to whatever event took place and no one is willing to say anything then I can see why the teacher would wish to punish the whole class. Why can the students who did see something not report this in some way?

NotQuiteHere · 14/10/2020 13:27

margotsdevil:
"I feel "barbaric" is perhaps a slight exaggeration"

Barbaric as in "primitive" or "uncivilized"

slipperywhensparticus · 14/10/2020 13:29

Unpopular? They are children they are encouraged to tell in primary school why is this suddenly a bad thing in high school?

My son got bullied because he told on some kids pissing about he shrugged it off because he is there to learn and they were distracting him the kids willsoon learn dont piss about around him because his focus is on education

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 14/10/2020 13:29

I see your point Teen, but it is not for students to police others behaviour nor make themselves unpopular for the rest of their school life

interesting that you support standing by on the chance that your child will be next. The school my son's attend send a very clear bullying message that it will not be tolerated on any level and so there is no escalation if someone reports it because school come down hard on students who do this. Who will tell these little shits their behaviour is unacceptable if everyone accepts it?

slipperywhensparticus · 14/10/2020 13:30

If they see it and don't say it they are guilty and deserve punishment

Next time defend yourself and don't ally yourself with people who do the wrong thing

ChloeCrocodile · 14/10/2020 13:30

You can't expect young DC to tell teachers what happened.

You can, and many will. IME it is actually older year groups (yr10+) who are less likely to tell a teacher.

NotQuiteHere · 14/10/2020 13:31

ChangeyNameyforthis:
"I have checked the school behaviour policy and they have a list of things that you get a detention for, non of which my DC has done to warrant one detention, let alone a weeks worth"
That's it then, complain.

Original poster
ChangeyNameyforthis · 14/10/2020 13:32

It was not bullying, which I wouldn't condone at all and it was not damaging property. It was basically a few boys messing around and bags being thrown around.

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omega3 · 14/10/2020 13:36

I thought this type of punishment had gone out with the Ark! Amazed it's still going.

This is something I would complain about it. I have when they used it at primary school. They wanted to give a whole school punishment for something a couple of pupils had done.

Utterly unfair and doesn't exactly encourage good behaviour - why bother?, you're going to get punished anyway.

lanthanum · 14/10/2020 16:58

It sounds as if your son knows who was doing the messing around, and probably so do several others. Perhaps if someone were to let the teacher know who was involved, they can target the punishment at those pupils. Nowadays it's easy enough to do that without being seen to be telling - they're probably able to email the teacher.

Bags being thrown around is very likely to have damaged what's in the bag, and could easily result in damage to other things or people.

DD's school are about to start letting them be in the classrooms at lunchtime, as the usual communal spaces are not available and its getting cold to be outside. If that results in kids messing round, and nobody will say who, then I'm sure the entire class will be told they have to eat outside - what else can they do?

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 14/10/2020 17:47

Collective punishments were really common when I was at school. I hated them then and think even less of them now.

They never worked, because the perpetrators were usually those who held the most ‘power’. Silly to say as an adult, but the prospect of your entire peer group turning on you because you ‘told’ on the popular kid is incredibly daunting.

Regardless of what the OPs son does or doesn’t know, it’s very unlikely that EVERY child in the class saw what happened. I remember having after school detention every Monday for 4 weeks, when someone threw something at the teacher. The item came from behind me, I couldn’t have told the teacher even if I had wanted to.

I wonder how many adults would be happy to accept a punishment, based on the fact they happened to be in the place a crime was committed, and were unable to tell the police what they wanted to know?

safariboot · 14/10/2020 17:54

Lazy teaching. The teacher doesn't have to do anything to find out who was responsible, just punish the lot and assume they'll blame the wrongdoer.