Year 13/11 how do you feel about the 3 extra weeks...

[MrsAvocet]

...to "catch up"?
Seriously? After all that has happened and is still to come, does anybody seriously think that delaying exams by three whole weeks is actually going to make a blind bit of difference?

@sweetchillijam it was very similar in our house. In the end we didn't bother sending it back but kept it all so he could take it back with him. He hasn't been asked for one piece of work yet and I'm not sure he had any feedback for anything he submitted online either.

Its awful.

I think it will just make things worse, not having the half term "break" in the middle is completely shit planning. It will just condense the amount of exams they have to do putting them closer together.

Ds1 took his GCSEs in 2019, this was how his timetable worked out

Week 1 - 5 exams
Week 2 - 3 exams
Half term which allowed him to revise for the following
Week 3 - 6 exams
Week 4 - 6 exams
week 5 - 2 exams, his last exam was Tuesday 18th June.

This, I feel, worked well and obviously does work well which is why it has been this way for a long time. It meant that lots of paper 1s were done by half term or some entire subjects such as English Lit and Computer Science.

I think it would have been better to allow them to have the half term in the middle of the exams.

How long has it been that exams started before half term? I am sure when I did O-levels (so a long time ago!), we started them after half term and had many papers.

When I did O levels, we had 2 papers per day, and usually 2-3 hour papers too.
We did that most days from start to finish.

When Ds did his GCSEs last year, I was amazed that they were so spread out.

Really, it is doable.

steppe I think it is doable for some. But for a sizeable minority doing 18-20 exams over 4 weeks solid will become more a test of stamina than a test of knowledge / ability / attainment.

I think they should have kept the one week gap.

(ps I don't think that O levels were 3hr papers. I looked back at mine recently and they weren't. I only had 3 hr papers for my university maths exams.)

look, I'm not saying it is ideal, or the best thing, but 30 years ago, when we did O levels, we did exactly this.
Everyone, did exactly this.

Why ar ekids today so much more fragile? yes it was a stamina test. yes it was hard work.
On the other hand, it was LESS of a stamina trip as the whole exam period was more condensed, so 2 tough weeks, rather than dragged out for 4-5 weeks.

Pros and cons, as with everything.

steppe Everyone did not do this, as only the top ~35% even took O levels.

Just checked my O and A level papers. O level papers were between 1.5 and 2.5 hours, A level were 2-3 hours.

The thing is, testing stamina isn't what GCSEs are meant to test. They are meant to test attainment in particular subjects. Turning the GCSEs back into a test of stamina does our young people a disservice.

This academic year of all years is not the time for heaping extra stress on y11s when they have already had extra due to the pandemic.

That said, it is what it is. Parents, schools & pupils will need to get their head round it and manage best they can.

If my DD sits them at all it will be 4 or 5 at most now instead of the full 8 she was expected to pass prior to the pandemic.

Steppemum I think you’re being harsh saying kids today are fragile. DD1 in 2019 took 23 exams for 10 subjects, most were 1.5hrs. Not sure how you’d fit those into 2 weeks. Lots were back to back and several day’s in a row. Of course, it depends on which subjects as to how a kid’s timetable works out. Some will be a little spaced, some quite condensed. No complaints from her because that’s what it is. And the kids will suck it up and do them, but in the meantime we’re the adults and should at least try to make it as fair as possible.

@steppemum

look, I'm not saying it is ideal, or the best thing, but 30 years ago, when we did O levels, we did exactly this. Everyone, did exactly this.

Why ar ekids today so much more fragile? yes it was a stamina test. yes it was hard work.
On the other hand, it was LESS of a stamina trip as the whole exam period was more condensed, so 2 tough weeks, rather than dragged out for 4-5 weeks.

Pros and cons, as with everything.

Easier for you to say when you already admitted your kids got good provision throughout lockdown and aren't very behind. You say that the grade boundaries will be lower if the whole cohort does badly but as you know first-hand lots of schools did better than others.

*I think there are 2 things that we really need to remember.

1. That there are no easy solutions and nothing that is going to please everyone, or that will work for. The normal exam schedule doesn't work for everyone either, so there is always a group who will benefit and a group who won't. It is easy to complain, but what alternatives are there? And no, I don't think teacher assessment is a viable alternative.
2. We need to change the message to our yong people. I was horrified last year at the amount of "My life is ruined" comments on the news. Life is not over if you don't do as well on your GCSE as you thought. Life continues, you have different choices, maybe not the same as before but there are still choices. And if that means resitting, well for most kids, that is also not the end of the world. teach our kids ot be flexible and adaptable and resilient*

@steppemum I agree with both of your general points about there being pros and cons to any option and the importance of how we adults frame the “catastrophe” but I do think it’s easier to be philosophical if your children have remained pretty much on track and the teaching has been consistent and delivering new material (as I think you say has been the case for your DC). My DC have had pretty good teaching throughout too but many have had virtually nothing and parents are understandably very concerned. I think the other concern is not just about whichever unsatisfactory option they choose for the exams but the fact that they may flip flop around and move the goalposts later (depending who is in the job over the next few months) and we may be subjected to a drip feed of difficult to interpret information. This lack of certainty along with all the other uncertainties is terribly damaging for young people who have suffered a lot at a point in their lives when they are not particularly robust. I think many will have difficulties keeping their head above water emotionally never mind exams.

You are absolutely right that the world doesn’t stop turning if exam grades are not good but I think life is trickier now without them. All this talk of O Levels reminds me that there were many more options back then with relatively few expecting to go to university (I left school in 1984). So I think we’ve built catastrophe into the system. There is also much more exam rhetoric now and more talk of stress but we have also built a more pressured world and I don’t think there is any merit in comparing the previous generation’s exam experience. I also don’t think that everyone is hysterical around their children. I am worried, I am concerned about my children’s psychological state but, like most of us, I am presenting a philosophical face to my children. While I think you’re right that we should model the right response to all this I think that’s easier when your children are likely to be disappointed rather than have a cart and horses driven through their academic hopes to the point where it is difficult to recover emotionally and academically, especially where parents or schools can’t provide support.

@DonLewis

How do you sit your exams if you're self isolating? That's what I want to know.

DD has just had this problem as she tested positive and couldn't sit one of her A Level exams (that's one paper out of three for the subject). This was the guidence that came back from the exam board...

If a student is absent from an exam due to self-isolating, this would be grounds to apply for special consideration. An approved special consideration application allows us to calculate a mark for the missed exam using the process outlined in the attached document.

I can copy and paste the attached document if anyone is interested?

You are absolutely right that the world doesn’t stop turning if exam grades are not good but I think life is trickier now without them.

This^

My DD has had a crap time at her current school and with good grades is likely to get into a local sixth form college where she is hoping for a new start from the bullies and bullshit. Less than ideal grades mean probably having to stay at her school sixth form with all that entails.

YouOKHun I couldn’t agree more. Very well put.

My DD's school was OK during lockdown, saying that they really never had virtual lessons but been sent homework etc during the week and they marked their progress in that sense it was good and my DD was good keeping up with them but of course this can't replace a fill time education at school with teachers, some course works like design technology they couldn't do all the stuff they needed to do! But this is one example, other examples could be worse, not all schools are the same and not all children are at same level when it comes to independent study at the age of 15! I don't think three weeks delay is sensible but I guess it is still something. The worst thing all of is this uncertainty- I can see a u-turn on this decision, wondering if BJ will follow Scotland in the end

@WhatHaveIFound yes please! Thanks, that's really helpful.

This is crap, it is not enough for our yr 13s who have missed so much learning already :(

We all know that online provision is patchy across State schools, private schools invariably offer more online teaching - A Levels exams in current conditions will only exacerbate existing entrenched differences.

I saw the thread for a Parliamentary petition to cancel A Levels and GCSEs (it's been moved to the petition section) in case anyone is interested:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/326066

Absolutely agree YouOKHun I am presenting a bright and breezy "it will be ok in the end, just keep working and do your best" message to my year 13 DS but inside I am oscillating between worry and rage.
I think in all honesty I would rather they had done nothing than add this paltry 3 weeks. A handful of extra lessons in each subject for A level students and even less for the GCSE pupils will make no discernable difference to the majority in my opinion - its a sticking plaster over a gaping wound - so they may as well have stuck to the original timetable and let both the kids and the teachers enjoy the break as normal.

steppemum

DD recently took 10 GCSEs - that was a total of 27 exam papers

Her art exam was 2 solid days in exam conditions which counted as 10% towards the final exam.

OLevels we did one paper, but two in maths and English.

This is why they need longer

@DonLewis here's the text and i'll post a photo of the second page...

ESTIMATING THE MISSING MARK WHEN A CANDIDATE IS ABSENT
FROM AN EXAMINATION
This document explains how the missing mark is estimated when a candidate is absent (for an acceptable reason) from a unit in a specification which uses uniform marks. The same principles apply when a mark is missing because the script has been lost.
The conditions under which an estimated mark can be awarded in the case of candidate absence are set out in Chapter 4 of the JCQ publication A guide to the special consideration process, which is available on the JCQ website,
All JCQ awarding bodies employ the same procedure, known as the z-score method. Under this procedure the difference between the candidate’s estimate and the performance of candidates generally on the unit in question is the same as the average difference between the candidate’s performance and the performance of candidates generally on the other units.
If the candidate performed on average slightly better than candidates generally on the other units, then the estimate for the missing mark will be slightly above the general performance on that unit.
The difference between the performance of the candidate in question and the performance of candidates generally is measured in terms of standard deviations.
A candidate whose performance on a unit is slightly above the performance of candidates generally on that unit might be 0.43 standard deviations above the mean mark for that unit. The number of standard deviations above or below the mean is called the z-score. All calculations use uniform marks, not raw marks. If the missing mark is for an AS unit, only AS marks are normally used in the calculations. Similarly if the missing mark is for an A2 unit, only A2 marks are normally used. The above restriction on the use of AS and A2 units is waived for 2-unit A Level qualifications. For these, a missing mark for the AS unit is estimated using the result for the A2 unit; a missing mark for the A2 unit is estimated using the result for the AS unit.
In the examples below the means and standard deviations are exact whole numbers. Of course this would be unlikely to occur in practice but it makes the principles easier to understand.

Page 2

I knew that I would get lots of people disagreeing with me, which is fine.

But there are same massive assumptions going on here.
Yes, my kids schools did have good provision. However my year 13 spent the first 6 weeks of lockdown in bed with the duvet pulled over his head, so, no, it hasn't all been smooth sailing in terms of work/progress. My 3 kids are on FSM and so we are not in the 'better off' class at all.

There is this prevailing idea that life for young people is harder than it was when I was at school/in the past, that they have it all harder than before.
I challenge that idea. yes, I did O levels, so for me personally, I had education etc. But many many kids in the 1980s came out of school with few or no qualifications. They were in the middle of miners strike/thatcher unemployment and got shoved onto YTS schemes and no jobs. There were huge swathes of kids across especially areas in the North where kids went from school with 2 CSEs and then unemployed for years. There was a brilliant intervoew this week with a couple of men who left school at that time, and their experiences were shocking.

1980s wasn't the only time. What about young people reaching 16/18 in the middle of the war? or in the 1930s depression?
What about the many who had to leave school at 14 because they was no money or will to allow them to continue?

Now I wouldn't want to return to any of that and of course we must fight for our kids, but this idea that they have it harder than any previous generation is bollocks. Try telling that to my grandparents. There was a 'lucky' generation, who reached 18 in the 1960s who had an open job market and many opportunities, but they are not typical of all the generations that have gone before.

Maybe my view is coloured by the fact that I have lived overseas, and see the effcts of poverty war and crisis on many kids. When I hear people complaining about schools in the UK, I think of kids in refugee camps and wonder how they get any education at all. I take a whole world view, and at the moment, I don't think our kids are that badly off. I think they will be fine. I think we have a duty to help them frame it. To help them see alternative futures.

As well as all the worry about GCSE’s. DD is coming out of school absolutely freezing. She said she is so cold (we are in the very north of England) she is struggling to concentrate. They are working in classrooms with no heating and with all the classroom windows flung open (due to Covid) from before they even enter the classrooms. She says some of the teachers at her school are wearing big thick coats, hats and gloves to teach in whilst she is sat by open windows in most of her classes (probably as the teachers know she is quiet and won’t say anything). The pupils are not allowed to wear coats or scarves or anything to cover their school jumpers up as it will distract them from learning. Even in the 80’s kids weren’t expected to sit in a freezing classroom with all the windows flung open all day in the autumn.

@Sweetchillijam

As well as all the worry about GCSE’s. DD is coming out of school absolutely freezing. She said she is so cold (we are in the very north of England) she is struggling to concentrate. They are working in classrooms with no heating and with all the classroom windows flung open (due to Covid) from before they even enter the classrooms. She says some of the teachers at her school are wearing big thick coats, hats and gloves to teach in whilst she is sat by open windows in most of her classes (probably as the teachers know she is quiet and won’t say anything). The pupils are not allowed to wear coats or scarves or anything to cover their school jumpers up as it will distract them from learning. Even in the 80’s kids weren’t expected to sit in a freezing classroom with all the windows flung open all day in the autumn.

It’s a bit crazy if it’s cold enough for teachers to wear coats etc that students can’t.