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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Triple Science vs Combined Science

72 replies

TheShoesa · 09/09/2020 17:25

DS has just gone into year 11. His school have sent a letter home stating that all triple science students like him, will be moved down onto combined science, because of lockdown.

The letter says that the school feels there is not sufficient time left to teach the volume of material left to the standard required. Then waffles a bit about how dropping from triple to combined is really good news for the students.

I wondered whether this was happening nationally?

I also am not familiar with the exam structure. I am old enough to have done O levels and in maths for example, some exams had an additional paper for those candidates who were expected to get the higher grades IIRC. Does a similar thing happen with the combined / triple science? I was wondering whether the triple students could do both exams and then be awarded either / or depending on their performance on the extra papers if such things exist.

The school letter says 'Your child is much more likely to acieve two good grades following combined science rather than risk underachievement across three. This in turn will provide them with better life chances'

It does point out that a local lockdown would impact badly on triple science students and where we are in the Midlands it is a possibility.

Sorry, it got a bit long! I am in two minds as to whether to contact school to see if there is any compromise, but wanted to see if I was being unrealistic if I did so.

OP posts:

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 11/09/2020 23:40

slalomsuki I think the information you were given by the 6th form there is the issue.

Doing core shouldn’t affect his chances at 6th form or of doing sciences at university.

Original poster

TheShoesa · 12/09/2020 08:40

I was talking to DH about this and the leap from combined science to any of the singles at A level. We are a bit concerned that it'll be a big jump.

BUT, ds is very likely to stay at the same school for 6th form and therefore the 6th form teachers will know how much they have to catch up and all students will be in the same boat. Add to that the reduced number of subjects and I'm finding myself less grumpy about it all. I just have a feeling that it is this year's yr11s and yr13s who will have had their education most badly affected by lockdown

OP posts:

TeenPlusTwenties · 12/09/2020 08:44

lanthanum
^If she's in a school, I'm not sure it would be allowed; science is a core subject in the National Curriculum, like English and maths, and I think the requirement is for them to be taught at least the combined science curriculum.
Also, she would have to be taught the extra topics that are in biology but not in combined science, and that's unlikely to be possible - they'll probably only be teaching that material to higher tier triple science students, and they wouldn't be able to timetable her into that.^

Unfortunately she currently isn't managing to attend school right now due to anxiety. Neither is she working at home. We might have more chance working at home if we weren't simultaneously trying to get her to school. Plus it would make accessing therapy easier.
I know if she were in school it wouldn't be allowed, but she may have more chance of achieving Biology with a tutor than combined. Biology is her strongest and will be useful for Animal Care at college. She has done most of the combined biology already at school.
As I said, out of the box thinking needed for her...

catndogslife · 12/09/2020 12:33

OP if the school has been attempting to teach "Triple" Science in the same time as Double then that is understandable. It is only just about possible to fit all the content in the timetable when schools are fully open.
@TeenPlusTwenties I will send you a pm as this sort of scenario is the sort of thing that I help with in real life.

CraftyGin · 13/09/2020 08:11

@RubixCubix

For Edexcel (Pearson) Sciences the Combined Award is based on about 80% of the content for the separate sciences. Students taking combined or triple sciences all take the first 3 exam papers (biology 1, physics 1, chemistry 1) testing them on the 80% syllabus. The combined award is graded on the results of those 3 papers and is worth 2 GCSES Anyone taking triple then sits 3 further papers biology 2, physics 2, chemistry 2) testing them on the full 100% syllabus. Their grades for each science is based on the results from the 2papers for that science e.g biology 1+biology2= biology grade.

That is not true at all.

Combined candidates sit six papers, all 1h10 in length. Triple candidates sit six papers, at the same time, all 1h45 in length - so proportionally 50% more.

There are additional lessons in triple, interspersed throughout the modules in Biology and Physics (with astronomy as a stand alone module), and additional modules in Chemistry. Triple is broader rather than deeper.

CraftyGin · 13/09/2020 08:17

@TeenPlusTwenties

This is slightly off topic, but while you're all here:

If my y11 DD were to drop combined and do just Biology on its own, is it really 50% more biology, and is the extra stuff harder or just different? Would only be Foundation level if that makes any difference.

(Yes I know it would be highly unusual, but we are having to think massively outside the box for her.)

I’ve done this with students.

The separated papers are 50% more content, but, IMO, its not really harder. For example, on the nervous system topic, there are additional lessons on the brain and he eye - not harder.

Separate papers can be taken at foundation level.

ihearttc · 13/09/2020 09:15

When would they need to make the decision to sit combined rather than triple?

DS is in y11 and currently doing triple and at thr moment is predicted 8/9 Physics, 7 Chemistry and 6 biology. He wants to do Physics A level. However he is really struggling with English and quite honestly will need more revision time for that than science. Debating whether to see how it goes for now and then perhaps try to change to double where I think he could probably get 8/8.

TeenPlusTwenties · 13/09/2020 09:34

iheart Entries are only finalised Feb/March/April time. However it would be a school thing dependent on timetabling etc. The sooner they decide the better as they know whether to teach the 'triple only' units or not.
If you want a decision for your son independent of what the school does for everyone else you need to find out whether it is possible.
e.g. In our school triple are in a separate band, so dropping unilaterally to combined might well mean moving maths and English classes too. For English especially that could impact as they don't all do the same English Lit texts...

ihearttc · 13/09/2020 09:48

Thank you that’s really helpful. Would be useful to have a parents evening (we didn’t even have one in Y10 as was supposed to be in March!). I think I’d rather him get 2 great grades than 3 middling ones and then struggle with English. He is in top set for everything but at the very bottom of that set for English, he much prefers Maths/science.

TeenPlusTwenties · 13/09/2020 10:20

He can't be that bad at English if he is top set though, can he?

MsKeats · 13/09/2020 10:24

Most schools round here are doing the same. Totally. Sounds sensible.
Does your DC want to do Science A Levels?

Friend's son last year was struggling with triple -with levels 3.4.4 across the three. Moved to combined for the mock exam done in March and got two level 6 in the mocks -so thank goodness got 2 gcses at level 6 on teacher grades.

user1471530109 · 13/09/2020 10:49

I think it's great the school have made the decision early on. If most kids stay on at that six form then it completely makes sense. I think some of the grammar schools around here insist on triple to study A-level unfortunately. If this was my own dd, I'd be happy with that.

We are still doing triple (in combined science teaching time) and to be honest, we will be fine as we had raced through so much at the end of year 9 into year 10. We also carried on teaching through lockdown and picked topics that lend themselves to independent study. Problem is, many didn't do it.
If school stays open we will finish with time to spare to support those who didn't work during lockdown (outside lessons most likely). Problem is, we already have 5-6 yr11 isolating and at least 3 of those with positive cases at home. I'm waiting for the bubble to burst. If this happens over and over again, we will be really in trouble with the triple set.

CraftyGin · 13/09/2020 10:50

@TeenPlusTwenties

iheart Entries are only finalised Feb/March/April time. However it would be a school thing dependent on timetabling etc. The sooner they decide the better as they know whether to teach the 'triple only' units or not. If you want a decision for your son independent of what the school does for everyone else you need to find out whether it is possible. e.g. In our school triple are in a separate band, so dropping unilaterally to combined might well mean moving maths and English classes too. For English especially that could impact as they don't all do the same English Lit texts...

The entry deadline is 21st February every year. Most HODs will need to make their decisions several weeks ahead of this date.

MarshaBradyo · 13/09/2020 10:52

Not here yet. But I wouldn’t be impressed as they are his best subjects.

I’d much prefer French be scaled back for example.

CraftyGin · 13/09/2020 10:53

@MarshaBradyo

Not here yet. But I wouldn’t be impressed as they are his best subjects.

I’d much prefer French be scaled back for example.

MFL don’t need to do the spoken paper this year.

MarshaBradyo · 13/09/2020 10:55

Crafty ah that’s great! Thanks

RedskyAtnight · 13/09/2020 10:55

iHeart Obviously this is school independent, but DC's school would not let a strong triple science student drop to combined. They would only allow this if the student was struggling. Particularly if your school uses an extra option block to teach triple as the school then have the issue (particularly difficult now with Covid regulations) as to what they do with the student during that timetabled slot. Plus with your DC's predicted grades, would he be happy to lose a potential 8/9 in Physics for (say) a 76 overall?

DS's school last year refused to let him drop a subject that I thought he'd fail to spend more time on English (that I also thought he'd fail).

But, I agree with Teen - if he's top set English, it doesn't sound like he's really struggling and this is not a question of him not passing? English is a subject where lots of extra revision won't necessarily help make a huge difference to getting a much higher grade.

CraftyGin · 13/09/2020 10:58

@ihearttc

When would they need to make the decision to sit combined rather than triple?

What I would recommend in this situation is to continue on with triple, and make the combined/triple decision at exam entry time in February.

ihearttc · 13/09/2020 11:44

He is predicted a 5 in English, in all honesty he probably shouldn’t be in the top set but academically he is very able it’s just he really struggles with English, in particular the literature side of things. He is very black and white which doesn’t lend itself to discussing literature at length!!

RedskyAtnight · 13/09/2020 12:34

Well a 5 is fine ... and English Lit is not needed for anything! Personally I think he'd be better off getting 3 good science grades than possibly increasing a grade in the Englishes (as long as he has the crucial English lang pass of course). Unless you're targeting a selective sixth form that insists on 6s or something.

EducatingArti · 13/09/2020 12:48

I guess it is ' unfair' but spare a lot of things I. A pandemic. Teachers are managing in 'unfair' circumstances and some of them are vulnerable to Covid complications and are unable to socially distance properly.
It is unfair that many toddlers are developing an aversion to socialising with other children as they have to keep away from them in parks and playgrounds.
It is unfair that some people are furloughed on reduced pay and that others have been made redundant or lost livelihoods.
It is unfair that people cannot visit elderly in care homes as easily.
It is unfair that for some people, their lives have not been changed too much but for others lives have changed dramatically.
It is unfair that some people have been bereaved.
I would suggest encouraging your DS to do the very best he can and get the best grades he can on the double science. It will also give him a bit more time to concentrate on his weak subject.
If he wants to do A level sciences and you are concerned about him having the best foundation he could always study the extra material with a tutor even though he doesn't do the exam.

cantkeepawayforever · 14/09/2020 19:24

@TheShoesa

I was talking to DH about this and the leap from combined science to any of the singles at A level. We are a bit concerned that it'll be a big jump.

My DCs took GCSEs at a 'combined science only' school.

I looked into this very thoroughly when DS started GCSEs.

What seemed to be the case was that - with old A* to G GCSEs - those going on to Science A-levels at the double-only school did equally as well as a school down the road with a similar demographic but which did triple. However, if a child moved school for A-levels from a double-only school, or did double at a 'normally triple' school, those were a slightly less good basis for A-level - in the latter case probably because triple would tend to be offered to higher sets so a double-taking child might be of slightly lower standard on average.

With the move to 9-1 GCSEs, which have a much-increased content and in some areas rigour compared with A* to G, the status of double as a good preparation for A-levels has further improved. DD has moved to a triple-taking school for A-level, doing a Science, and is no whit disadvantaged, with the staff saying that only 1 part of 1 topic might constitute a gap, and even that does not arise until Y13 so the triple-takers have forgotten it too.

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