Triple Science vs Combined Science

[TheShoesa]

DS has just gone into year 11. His school have sent a letter home stating that all triple science students like him, will be moved down onto combined science, because of lockdown.

The letter says that the school feels there is not sufficient time left to teach the volume of material left to the standard required. Then waffles a bit about how dropping from triple to combined is really good news for the students.

I wondered whether this was happening nationally?

I also am not familiar with the exam structure. I am old enough to have done O levels and in maths for example, some exams had an additional paper for those candidates who were expected to get the higher grades IIRC. Does a similar thing happen with the combined / triple science? I was wondering whether the triple students could do both exams and then be awarded either / or depending on their performance on the extra papers if such things exist.

The school letter says 'Your child is much more likely to acieve two good grades following combined science rather than risk underachievement across three. This in turn will provide them with better life chances'

It does point out that a local lockdown would impact badly on triple science students and where we are in the Midlands it is a possibility.

Sorry, it got a bit long! I am in two minds as to whether to contact school to see if there is any compromise, but wanted to see if I was being unrealistic if I did so.

The school closing is my worry. DS struggled with motivation during lockdown so although it is frustrating as he is probably the most academically bright of my children, I will just accept what the school are telling us and keep the grumbling about it under my breath.

I think the problem for this group of yr 11s (nationally) is that the knowledge gaps will be incredibly hard for their teachers to cover as it will be minimal for some but huge for others.

For Edexcel (Pearson) Sciences the Combined Award is based on about 80% of the content for the separate sciences.
Students taking combined or triple sciences all take the first 3 exam papers (biology 1, physics 1, chemistry 1) testing them on the 80% syllabus. The combined award is graded on the results of those 3 papers and is worth 2 GCSES
Anyone taking triple then sits 3 further papers biology 2, physics 2, chemistry 2) testing them on the full 100% syllabus. Their grades for each science is based on the results from the 2papers for that science e.g biology 1+biology2= biology grade.

The advantage of taking combined is less content to cover over all. The disadvantage would be if the student was weaker in one science it would drag down the combined grade. So a potential 8/8/5 could become 7/6.

This is why we decided against combined for my (home ed) DD as she is weaker in physics due to the maths content (dyscalclia). Instead she is just taking 2 single sciences- biology this year (Yr10) and chemistry in year 11. That way she has to learn less content and only for 1 subject at a time (also an issue due to her LDs) but will still get 2 science GCSES with hopefully better grades than she would taking the Combined Award.

When teaching A level physics, I’d rather have a student who has properly studied and understood combined science than one who rushed through the separate science GCSE.

I’d trust the school - if they say they don’t have time to do it properly, they don’t have time.

I wouldn't be happy. DS1 did triple science two years ago and DS2 is Year 11 also doing it now. There is a load of work, but head of science was on the ball over lockdown and ploughed on through the curriculum with daily lessons using zoom (the only subject this happened though!). He was quite clear this subject material would not be covered again in school.
DS2 wants to do A level sciences with a view to dentistry. I'd be gutted tbh for him to get less GCSE's than he's capable of.

I’m not sure what is better in this situation, but in the long run I don’t think he will be disadvantaged. I did combined science which was all that was offered at my school. Moved to a 6th form for a levels where most had done triple but they covered everything anyway. Went on to be a professional scientist. The main point of GCSEs is to get into a levels, no-one cares much after that.

A couple of dds friends are doing science subjects at sixth form although they only did combined at GCSE, ( the higher papers not foundation)

Dd still doing triple but her school ploughed on with the curriculum over lockdown and they are ready to jump back online as needed. In some subjects the teachers say they are ahead because there were no school trips in the summer term when lesson time might have been lost.

Suspending the curriculum for GCSE / A Levels was one of the more bonkers decisions. Fair enough for the first few weeks when there were massive queue in shops etc. and schools needed to get themselves together but it should have been reinstated nationally after Easter. Any yr10/12 child without Internet could be given a place in school to watch the lessons either live or on screens. Fewer secondary school children took up key worker spaces around here so there should have been ample classrooms.

@walksen DS took Triple as an option. He's only doing 8 GCSE's, I'm assuming he'll need 8 for College & University so they don't have the option to transfer to Combined.

If they take triple as an option there shouldn't be an issue, because they'll have the extra timetable time. It's the schools where they squeeze it in to the ordinary science time that will struggle.
(They don't need eight GCSEs for university, but the school will need them to have done eight for the league tables.)

@TheShoesa I can tell you this from the perspective of a parent who has been through this.

Ds1 now in year 13 was meant to do the triple science but we found out at the end of year 10 that the class hadn't been pushed as much as it should have in year 9 and they couldn't catch it up in year 10, they tried. Therefor there was no choice but to do the combined. We were pissed off as was Ds.

It did mean that when he sat the combined he got 9, 9, he feared he would have achieved a slightly lower 8 or 7 for biology if he had done the triple as he didn't love it and he went on to do A level physics. He has not struggled at all in A level because his understanding is there to build on. Sixth form only wanted a 6 in a science to continue it.

Ds2 has just started year 10. We were told back in year 9 that triple science really should be an option due to the time it takes to teach it so any child chosen to do the triple would have to do the work in their own time. I told the head of science flat out that he would do the combined, I would rather he get 9,9 and concentrate any free time to his other subjects.

I suspect that @RubixCubix is quoting the exam paper structure for iGCSE which is slightly different to that for GCSE.
For the Combined Science GCSEs for all exam boards there are 2 papers for each subject i.e. 2 for Chemistry. 2 for Physics and 2 for Biology. The 2 grades are awarded by averaging the grades across all 6 papers.
There is a higher tier (grades 4 to 9) and a Foundation tier (grades 1 to 5). All papers sat must be the same tier. The Combined Science papers are slightly shorter than the triple Science. The Combined Science papers are sat at the same day and time as the "Triple" Science papers.
It is more straightforward to move from GCSE Combined Science to A level as all the topics will have been covered, it's just that some will have been done in a bit less depth. The topics are divided up so that the Higher Combined Science ones are at the same level of difficulty as the Higher Triple ones. So the issue is slightly less content rather than Combined Science being easier.
I hope that's helpful.

Ours are keeping the three separate sciences for those who have chosen them. I do not know the difference between how the tests are done.

JoanJosephJim
catndoglife
Ianthanum

The triples weren't as an option, they were (supposed to be) taught more intensely in the same time frame as combined.

I have been in touch with the school and they are absolutely firm that all triple science students will be doing combined - there is not enough time to cover the syllabus in the remaining terms and they can't expect parents to get additional tutoring to cover the gaps (although we are lucky in that we are in a position to do this, I appreciate that there may be some parents who are not). I assume the triples students will be doing the higher rather than the foundation papers. I know that it won't prevent dsstudying any of the three at A Level should he wish to do it. (School have asked for 6,6 to go onto A level). It just seems unfair, although I daresay ds is happier that he has less to learn. We were rather relying on the 3 gcses to offset one which he is likely to do poorly in (the reason for having to do it was out of our control).

This is slightly off topic, but while you're all here:

If my y11 DD were to drop combined and do just Biology on its own, is it really 50% more biology, and is the extra stuff harder or just different? Would only be Foundation level if that makes any difference.

(Yes I know it would be highly unusual, but we are having to think massively outside the box for her.)

Teen from the point of view of someone who has had a DC take triple and now has a DC taking combined. I'd say combined seems roughly 2/3 of triple in terms of content, so guess it will be approx 50% extra to move from combined to triple. The "extra stuff" is just more stuff - it's across the range of easy to hard material iyswim.

see here: for AQA comparison. filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/science/AQA-8464-8461-CO-TEACH.PDF

Our school has been very clear that double is suitable for A levels. My DS isn’t a scientist and took double despite being offered triple. He got 88 and he’s really no genius. I would go with the school who feels they can do justice to double and if he gets 8/9 he’ll be at no disadvantage for A level

e were rather relying on the 3 gcses to offset one which he is likely to do poorly in (the reason for having to do it was out of our control).

Can I ask op what this subject is; language or art based?

To be honest at GCSE level if a student is capable of high grades in maths, English & science then they are capable of high grades in almost everything else other than the above areas

Art based.

School were keen for him to do the EBacc, he didn't want to do a MFL. HOY and VP agreed he could drop the MFL. At the start of yr10 the MFL was on the timetable and he was adamant he didn't want to do it. A timing clash meant that he couldn't keep a subject he really wanted to do plus the arts subject he had chosen which was the one he was least bad at. So he had to take an arts he is rubbish at to keep the subject he really wanted.

Hope that makes sense?!

DS’s school is currently continuing with triple for those who started triple in yr10. Intervention sessions start next week to cover the curriculum in the required depth.

Out of interest is yours a standalone school Queen, or part of a multi academy trust?

Part of a MAT, I thought it was fairly small but about 8 secondary schools, 3 special and 15 primaries. Much bigger than I thought! It is strictly run- you definitely need to buy into the ethos when you send your DC there- but very well organised. We have the full list of areas DS will cover in the science sessions and their plan to help with the maths.

@TeenPlusTwenties

This is slightly off topic, but while you're all here:

If my y11 DD were to drop combined and do just Biology on its own, is it really 50% more biology, and is the extra stuff harder or just different? Would only be Foundation level if that makes any difference.

(Yes I know it would be highly unusual, but we are having to think massively outside the box for her.)

If she's in a school, I'm not sure it would be allowed; science is a core subject in the National Curriculum, like English and maths, and I think the requirement is for them to be taught at least the combined science curriculum. Also, she would have to be taught the extra topics that are in biology but not in combined science, and that's unlikely to be possible - they'll probably only be teaching that material to higher tier triple science students, and they wouldn't be able to timetable her into that.

We are in wales and dd year 11 is doing triple science. We've heard nothing about this. Although they have been given the option to take their year 10 and 11 exams in order to ensure they get the best grade possible. Although if they do choose to do this we have to pay for the 1 exam apparently! Trying to get to the bottom of this....

I wouldn't be happy with this if your DS wanted to do a science A level next year.

DS1 did combined science and wanted to do Biology but the 6th form felt that the leap was too great and he would be always trying to catch up with those who had done triple science. He ended up with 3 humanities A levels instead.
DS2 on the other hand did triple science as the same School had changed exam board and has gone straight on to a science a level without feeling out of his depth.

I would ask their reasoning in detail and also think beyond next summers exams.